A couple weeks ago (!!!) I posted about people's collection management. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/how-do-you-manage-records-documentation-notes-etc.318112/ Background...my world coin records are horrendous. Now, I've gotten a few ancients and my eye is heading more this way, I wanted to start of on the right foot, and maybe get the rest of my collection under control. So, with TONS of input from people here and a bunch of trying out of bits of software, holders, etc. this is what I came up with. Limitations..congenital disorganization syndrome with over 15 years of collecting. Though not Ancients seriously, so my Ancients accumulation is a bit larger than I realized. Constraints... I use a Mac and though one of my solutions is Mac specific, there are PC optionsto use. Next too many pictures: What I'm starting with: That's after I straightened up some of the receipts...and that's not even all of them. Just MOST of the ones since moving to this house. I have a couple of shoeboxes more and plenty of coins without receipts. My more costly purchases are in the last few years so this is less critical. So, a system. I liked one poster's solution. A personal catalog number, and put all appropriate paperwork for each coin in it. It may be the original flip/tag, an auction listing copy, receipts, emails, whatever. Electronic copies will be uploaded into my new program (later). But the paper will be preserved. I'm using a 10 character code. 10, 20, 30 etc. to cover topics like ancients, Albanians, US, World, etc. 20 is for Ancients, and I may modify to using 21, 22 etc. Just a basic initial sort. Followed by three letters that does some kind of ID (ION for IONIA, ZOG, for President/King Zog) etc. The next four digits will be a numerical sequence generated by the database program. In no way will I ever get more than 9999 for any of these! The last letter is a grade of how important the coin is. A is for the top 5-10%. B for the coins I love. C are for coins that are lesser duplicates/traders etc. D is for Dreck. F is for 'get rid of it'. Basically I can look at a code and find the envelope with the needed documents...and I can tell how dear it is to me if I want to sell! Next up, a storage method. Coming from the world side I am not TOTALLY opposed to slabs and I am totally apposed to the PVC flips. The saflip types are okay, but the brands I seem to have tried are slippery, don't like to lie flat, and blah blah blah. I don't have a set up where I can have nice trays... and live in a humid place and find it mentally challenging to do that for long term storage. Ones I have slabbed will likely stay that way. But sending everything in for slabbing is out of the question. I narrowed it down to the Lighthouse Quadrum 2x2, the LH Quickslabs (easy open vs the Everslabs), and the CoinWorld slabs. I like th CW ones in hand, but they are more expensive, the label spot is smaller, and when the sizes aren't quite right, a bit harder to modify. I talked to some vendors, and the Quadrums probably don't have the thickness for some coins. Also, no good way to add a label or tag. The Quick Slabs are what I went with. I've ordered a bunch of AirTite rings so I can make them just about any size I'll need once all the supplies get here. This is my example, using a front and back label. (Just copied from the old Harlan Berk tag). For the NGC slabbed ones, a small sticker with the tracking number on the reverse: In the next post..the tracking software.
Oh, and using boxes I already have, here is an 'Ancients' box started. I can line them up anyway I want, they are not held to the tracking number as that is just for the documentation envelopes. So, NGC shaped holders work here. (The small purple box are the coins that are cataloged, but I don't have the right holder for yet). Oh, and I set up a table format in a Word document that are the correct size for the label and typed in whatever I wanted, using font sizes as I chose. So, finally, the software. I played around with about 4 different spreadsheets (Numbers, Open Office, Google Sheets, Excel). I am not a power user of these, but I did cobble together some examples. My OC little heart though wanted something a little less spread-sheety with potential for tons of fields. Some of it was just borderline Luddite issues with 'how do I keep the photos from not scrolling over and blocking other cells' sort of things. I found three collecting software options that worked with a Mac. RECOLLECTOR http://www.collectingcatalog.com/ is pretty nice. All the features a collector can want. Modifiable--the developer is actually a map collector. Lots of view options. Uploading format for a webpage. Great support. Very tempting. Almost went with it. ExactChange http://www.exactchange.info/Series_page.htm is also tempting. More costly. Great support/free upgrades. If all I was doing was world coins I very well might have gone with it. Has license to Krause, and if you have the books uploaded, you can get that information in the program. Pictures if you don't have them. Customizable. Upload your own. Make checklists. KM numbers, weights/diameters/metal content pre loads. A bit dated looking, but very nice for the world coins. And Krause isn't exactly error free so there are some limitations there. CAN make stuff for medals/Ancients, but then the extra features there aren't so useful. I went with Tap Forms. https://www.tapforms.com/ It's a Mac exclusive, but I'm sure there are some Windows versions out there. It's a user friendly personal (or small business) friendly. Super support (I emailed a question on Saturday and had a several email back and forth with support within 10 minutes as the guy walked me through a fix). I didn't expect any response until Monday! Not only did it look slick and work well for a database newbie (no Filemaker or Office Access level stuff, or coding for me!), but it's very flexible. Screenshots to follow and I'm sure more experienced people will do better. But a borderline Luddite like set this up pretty quickly. The basic work screen looks like this--views are very modifiable but this is the default view. They call the individual databases forms. The entries are records. It has a default record view too, but there are options there. You can even make a record view that ends up printing labels (I avoided that as too many variables in what fields I'd want on a label...like I said someone could probably fix that too). More pictures...can click on the thumbnail to see the photo: I blocked the seller's name/price. I don't want to know if I overpaid yet! Drop down menus are easily done. I added separate fields so I can have a text field for my tracking number, but can sort by 'grade'. The program will sequentially number records for me which I use for my tracking. I have sections to add jpgs (other formats acceptable) of the documents in the envelope, and I can add any other photos too. There are other ways to see the data. Including a spreadsheet view. You can collapse the side bar on the left (I think on the right too), so there is more horizontal viewing if you want. To be continued...(eventually, I seem to be on uploading hold right now).
More views possible too, instead of a list view, use the photo icon to see what you are looking for. Now, if you want a different layout, those are pretty easy too. And, here it is as applied to one of my other 'main' collections. I even made an auction tracker (and you can imagine how many other things you could pull off if you had the inclination). There is a calendar view too. I added a few lots to follow, and could add photos of the specific listing. It looks fancy, is functional (I like the idea of printing up a show-and-tell binder from this like others described in the other thread). All I have to do is MAKE MYSELF add each new coin I buy, and when I do that plug away at my receipt pile and add a few more. Each new coin gets a beauty shot, gets the documents photo'd and stuffed in envelopes, then added. With the photos done and documents on hand (jpg format courtesy of a quick smart phone snap), it takes just a few minutes it turns out. I have about 20% of my other non-junk coins photo'd, so it'd also just be a matter of entering them and then adding the receipts as I pull them out of the box/sack/bag or wherever. This took me a bit of time to settle on, but if I add every new coin and play catch up on my Albanian and Japanese coins, followed by world coins, medals, and maybe that 7070 US coin type set I rarely look at, well, in about 10 years I'll be done. If this is remotely helpful to those starting out, all I can say is...keep on top of things (if that is your mindset). I spent at least 10 years of my adult collecting life schlepping around duty stations and I never, ever, got organized on my personal stuff. Shoot, I just peeled a moving sticker of an ironing board I found in the basement from a move almost 5 years ago if that gives an idea. Somehow this will probably be a long term retirement project when the time comes, but it turns out pulling together the history and background is tons of fun...and upload-able and linkable to the database page. Doing the sums on money spent is not so much fun. I may have to encrypt this until I croak or I might have to hear about how much the hubs needs a new bike or car or something.
Wow, nice post! I'm due to finally get organized myself. Organization along with a serious effort at getting good (non-phone) pictures... is what's stressing me out about my collection these days. It's great to see how others are tackling these problems. Thanks for taking the time to share!
Tremendous write up and detail @Stork . Thanks for sharing. It’s motivating for me to get more organized. Do you know which of the three software packages you listed has options for cloud upload?
@Johnnie Black ReCollector is set up to sync via dropbox (for the app/main program to communicate) so there is online backing up involved if I understand that correctly. You can also generate web page content and at least one user commenting on another thread basically would upload his coins to his personal webpage as part of his system. I don't recall anything specific about Exact Change. No app associated, so I'm guessing any cloud back up is a manual thing. Tap Forms has an app for my phone I haven't gotten yet. You can generate a back up file (automated on quit, though I still need to set this up...your question prompted me to go looking for the information). The location can be set to dropbox or iCloud apparently. I have done a manual back up to try out restoring from it (just as I was starting playing on the sample form so it wasn't a risk). It sat on my desktop (which IS on iCloud) but I could have easily put a copy on dropbox manually. Long story short, it appears there is an easy way to automate this to either iCloud or dropbox. I'm turning into a bit of a fan for Tap Forms...I look around my house and start thinking of things to do with it like home inventory, vet records, tracking medical stuff due. We'll see if I can keep up the momentum. And, this is why I chose it. Same cost as reCollector, but more generic in functionality. Both were ~$50 (vs. ~$80 for ExactChange...but that one had the extras for the US/World collectors). The app will cost extra for TF, it might be free for ReCollector. There are 1001 other programs out there but I didn't find them...and these three took enough of my time as I gave them all reasonably serious trial runs (not to mention the straight up spreadsheets too). These are also very Lite programs. I am no way super computer savvy so no Filemaker, Access, coding or anything a real database pro could manage on short notice. The fact I even understand as much as I do is all because of coins now. But give me drag/drop website building and a prefab database platform please for this former/borderline Luddite.
Of the things I have done in the way of cataloging over the years, the one that has proven best for me was the decision to number my coins in a way that will allow any simple alphabetical sort to place then in proper order as I define it. First you have to decide what that order is. That is the hard part. My code starts with a. R for Roman, a P for Provincial and a G for Greek. Other coins are O. That sorts Greek first, followed by others, followed by Provincials, followed by Roman. Next I have divided each group into 10 sections 0-9 except for Roman which got 36 (0-9 for Republican and A through Z for Imperial and Byzantine). Because of my special interest in Septimius Severus, he got several letters allowing separation by mints while lesser interests got lumped together. The idea is to make the system fit me rather than to force my collection into a canned package. Spaces can be left for expansion at a later date. I currently have: RA Imperatorial RB 11 Caesars (Julius is in RA) RC Nerva through Commodus RD Pertinax - Albinus RE through RM divisions of Septimius through Geta - you won't have all these but will want more somewhere else RN Macrinus through Maximus RO Gordian through Aemelian and so on until RZ is Byzantine. Specialists in Byzantine might want to have a group of sections there where one serves me fine. I do suggest watching your letter choices so the sort order is what you want. BY might sound good for Byzantine but would sort these late coins at the top while something like V0 through V9 wuld allow ten sections of numbers that would sort after Roman and still allow some letters in case you wanted to collect modern coins. Yes, as a matter of fact, I did laminate the master list of my two letter codes and used it frequently until I had memorized it. That only took a couple years. Following that prefix, I assign a four digit number that forces the order as I want it. One way of doing this is to key on a page number or catalog number for a book that fits that section. Crawford numbers could be used minus punctuation. Millennium Sear volumes and pages work as long as you realize you will be assigning places the coin would be if it had been there. Following that I insert a meaningless string that will allow me to separate what follows. I'm currently using a code for which camera took the photo of the coin. That is followed by the four digit sequential number assigned as I get coins. If I buy my 10,000 coin, I am in trouble but I will be too old to care or count by then. Therefore: rf 0270 bb 0622 is a Roman coin from section f (Septimius Severus Alexandria) assigned 0270 because I wanted it to sort between 0260 and 0280 photographed with a camera I no longer use and was the 622nd coin in my collection. The point here is a little planning now might make your numbering system work better for you in decades to come. Re-cataloging thousands of coins is harder than thinking when you have dozens.
Looks great, @Stork! I might pick your brain about TapForms vs. ReCollector a bit as I ponder switching from Bento. Glad the envelopes idea appealed.
@Johnnie Black Found the option for an automatic sync with iCloud, IBM Cloudant, Apache Couch DB. Apparently some auto sync thing with Dropbox became non supported (on the DB size). I still generate a backup on my desktop (which is also cloud backed up) and can make an export file to put anywhere I want. The sync sounds more like something to use with the app (I don't have it yet, that's another $15, but can be used freestanding too). A regular back up can be done on the computer.
Good work on this. To each his/her own in terms of actual storage method. My only problems with your slab storage are: 1. You have not included provenance information on your slab label. This is critical information that should be kept with the coin. Coins in slabs are likely to get separated from their paperwork in the future - keep this in mind and do future collectors a favor by adding the provenance to the label. 2. "Microenvironment" - You mentioned that you live in a humid location. If you collect ancient bronze coins, managing humidity level of your storage space is important to preventing bronze disease. I fear your slabs may impede managing storage humidity level because a microenvironment may form within the slab.
Thanks, you are doing good work in explaining all this. I’m keeping all my data in a large Word file, my coins numbered in four digits with numbers giving information about the type, for instance Greek starts with 1 and Islamic with 6. I’m keeping pics by the seller and by myself in a separate file, but I don’t have a real illustrated system. Almost stepped into Filemaker, which has a monthly cost, but in the end I shied because I felt too Luddite for it. Still groping around... strange there is no ideal computer system for coin collecting.
That's how I ended up with Tap Forms. A million years ago (slightly exaggerated) Apple shipped a consumer level database program with it's 'works' suite (numbers, pages etc). It was called Bento and was very popular. They stopped supporting it several years ago though and as far as I can tell pretended Filemaker was okay for the average person. Tap Forms really seems (to me) to be the best successor, not that I ever put energy into Bento, but I wanted to back in the day. ReCollector is very collector oriented--even if the guy started with maps it seems best suited to Ancients given all the documentation. The Exact Change is what I'd want probably if all I had were world coins. Everything else is all about US coins. And many of those are very much a simple spreadsheet--not that a spreadsheet isn't useful, but not always ideal for displaying the information how I might want to. Semi-Luddite here too, and I'm actually enjoying playing around with it fixing it how I like...and changing it frequently.
Good point about the provenance. That particular coin would be an 'ex. Harlan J. Berk, private sale' or something. I could add a year if I ever find the reciept (mid to late 2000s, IIRC it was on of my very first ancients). I do have a few with far more extensive notes though and I'm not sure they'd fit well on the standard flip insert. I can certainly modify my content, change font size and even stick on another label with more information. I would like to think the envelopes would travel with the coins, but maybe not. I will think about this. I'll investigate the slabs further. Does Intercept help here? The holders are not airtight by any stretch (much flimisier than an NGC slab that they resemble). The foam is inert (from Lighthouse) and the box I'm keeping them in is Intercept. We keep dehumidifiers going, and I keep rechargeable dessicants inside the drawers around my boxes. I don't see problems with non-ancients. But I really want to do my best to keep them out of a harmful environment.
@dougsmit I had to think awhile on your excellent post and comments. I made up a long, long answer. But, basically it came down to what was I trying to do with my coding system. With more thought I realized I was trying to do 2 different things and mixing them up into one identifier. The shorter answer is the primary use is to give me a personal catalog number so I can locate the paperwork for each coin in an organized (!) fashion. Like what @Severus Alexander posted. For that I fell back on a multi-digit system type familiar from my military days. A two number prefix to designate one of 10 smaller categories, then using the database generated record number to sort the envelopes within the 10 categories. In my example 20 is for ancients. I'll have two digits for Japan, Albania, other World, US, medals/tokens, and whatever else strikes my fancy. I can always subdivide further to 21, 22, etc. if I ever get enough of a collection. The software makes renumbering relatively simple if it had to be done. The longer version of the answer addresses what you brought up...making the system add more information. Not needed for the simple records tracking, but for the program itself. I had added the letters to my selection not entirely sure what I would do with them, but you brought up some great options. I was going in the general direction of an identifier...but really the program sorts the coins that way already. Using the letters to ID the camera used is brilliant. My last letter is a grade of how awesome the coin is on a visceral level. A few As are expected. Bs are excellent. D is dreck. F is fail/sell. That leaves C for lesser duplicates and things to pare down. That is a separate field in the database so I can pull them up that way anytime I want. Not really needed for tracking my paperwork though. I already have the primary sorting field so far as Greek, Roman Republic, Roman Provincial, and Roman Imperial (handily provided by the tags/seller/listing for the most part). My secondary field is generally what followed on the tag--THRACE, Abdera, or Probus for example. Under the first sort, the coins will sort out that way. I can redesignate what I want as the sorting field order at any time. I'm thinking if I want to move Byzantine to the bottom I'll give it a sorting field of zByzantine. I can perhaps use those three letters I don't know exactly what to do with and use that for the sorting too. You give some very interesting food for thought though, and thankfully using this program makes instituting change a little more palatable. But the more I can figure out with 20 coins vs. 200 the better. All this is why I post--get (and hopefully give) ideas on how to make a personal system better for oneself!
Excellent posts @Stork ! Hopefully what all this means is that we can expect to start seeing more of you and your newly acquired ancients hanging out on the "dark side" of the board
Fantastic thread. You all covered a lot of territory. I do have a problem, not enough time for the amount of "stuff" I need to catch up on, but one must start somewhere and sometime. About a year ago I developed the habit of cataloging and imaging my new acquisitions immediateley after I purchase them. So far it seems to be working. I have a lot of catching up to do based on the old adage, "Never do today, what you can put of till tomorrow". I use a simple Excel spread sheet with pertinent info as to cat number(s), mint, obverse and reverse inscription, provenance, weight and diameter, as well as cost paid and estimated market value. I collect primarily Byzantine but have other interests. I have been focusing on my Byz stuff for now. I wish all of us well.
Might they fit if you use both sides of the standard flip insert? Might they fit if you make your own flip inserts using small computer font, perhaps double-sized and folded to fit (providing even more room)? Sometimes you gotta think outside the flip!
When I started I felt it more necessary to have everything I knew on a label or in a file. Later I tired of such matters and started noting exceptions rather than listing the expected. My current envelopes do not all have obvious words like silver or denarius. I thought that might be a problem selling the coins but dealers I asked mostly prefer to repackage coins under their style and label. My computer file and 3x5 cards have more info than my 2x2" envelopes but my head has more than either. Now that I am forgetting more than I learn, that may be a mistake but the next owner of the coin can research the coins if the seller/middleman chooses not to transmit my info.
I do the same on my tray tags - very abbreviated - EXCEPT for provenance information, which cannot be determined by just looking at the coin. That irretrievable info gets noted in full, on the back of my tray tags. "Irretrievable" might be an overstatement, but many of my discovered provenances would require a substantial numismatic library and time commitment to recover. To be clear, in my prior post, I was not suggesting that everything known about a coin should be included on the flip tag - it's just provenance information that I'm most concerned about.
