I noticed a lot in the recent Roma auction that I liked but I felt the starting bid was too high for the coin. Apparently I wasn't the only one who thought so as the lot went unsold. I did manage to snag a nice sestertius from the auction (I will post it up as soon as I get it ) and in my follow up on the invioce I made an offer on the unsold lot. I was sent a reply offering me the coin at the initial bid price plus 15% which of course I felt was too high to begin with. My question is; should I simply politely pass on the offer or is it worth it To make another counter offer? Do any of you have experience with buying unsold lots? I'm curious if it's standard practice for the auction houses to not go below minimum bid on unsold lots or if there is any wiggle room. I appreciate all of your thoughts in advance. P.S. I believe the offer I made was fair and not a rediculous low ball. I would come up slightly but not much.
Auction houses are in the business of selling. Most are trying to get the most out of every item, but in the end they are making their money from buyer/seller premiums. So, they are generally happier with any sale over unsold lots. Chances a consignor has set a minimum amount they will accept for that coin. Of course, it never hurts to send a more reasonable offer. I doubt the auction house would think poorly of you for doing so (they probably already know the asking price is too high). Has the coin dropped in value recently? It's also possible whoever owns the coin is stuck for more than the current worth .
I don't deal with Roma so can not advise with any meaning but there is a lot of difference between sellers on this matter. The big question here is whether the coin is a consignment or property of the house. There are sellers that are so offended with an offer that you would think you shot their dog. Others great you with, "I can do better." I do not think of auctions as being a place to bargain. If they want less, they can post it in a later sale.
Here are a few of my observations/experiences with auction houses regarding unsold lots. First, it seems to be standard practice for auction houses to offer unsold lots (post-auction) at the opening bid plus 15% (or whatever is their standard commission). I don't get this -- if someone wanted to pay opening bid plus commission, they would have done so during the auction -- but don't be taken aback if this is their initial response. Second, if you want to offer a lower-than-opening bid, you should certainly feel comfortable doing so. In the event that the auction house actually owns the coin, you might have a decent chance of reaching a mutually agreeable lower price. But if the consignor still owns the coin (very likely), the auction house will need to communicate your offer to the consignor and get a response from him/her. Even in this case, the auction house will still want a commission -- probably their standard commission -- and probably won't be very cooperative in negotiating on your behalf with the consignor. This varies -- German auction houses have a terrible reputation for being difficult to deal with -- but my limited experience indicates that this middleman type of negotiation can be arduous and unlikely to succeed. My specific advice is to make an offer that includes the commission you're willing to pay and be sure to tell the auction house that your offer includes whatever commission they might charge. But don't hold your breath. Assuming this approach fails to reach an agreement, just wait for the coin to show up in another auction. For a more detailed story about my specific experience in a similar situation, see my posting in this thread: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/hadrian-continues-his-travels.286184/
I've always wondered how much room an auction house has to negotiate. There is a "make an offer" button on unsold Heritage lots, but I've never tried it. On Heritage, the opening bid is set at a percentage of the estimate, or the opening bid is the sellers reserve. While I was watching the NYINC auction, I noticed that *A LOT* of the reserved lots didn't sell - and they are all offered for sale afterwards. If a lot didn't sell because the owner set a reserve, the auction house doesn't have a whole lot of room to negotiate - even if the reserve was too high.
Anything we say is pure speculation without more informations. There are a lot of different things that could be happening behind the curtains. Without a link to auction (obviously op is still in negotiation and rightfully withheld), we can't even get an idea of the price range/rarity/etc. Sometimes an auction house will put coins up (or ask a regular consignor for coins) they don't especially intend to sell at high premiums when they don't have enough coins for a complete show. Seat-fillers. On the other hand, I've heard small-auction auctioneers apologize because they can't go lower than the consignor's reserve on an item that he would otherwise sell.
Thanks for the replies everyone I am glad to have a place to turn with questions that had so many knowledgeable people to give advice. I think I will counter offer and see what happens. Either way I will post my purchases when they arrive. Thanks again!
I did the same with GretCollections - no answer, I assume, it is because those are consignment coins, and have a minimum requirement from original seller, which is a staring price. Most of the time, the starting price is way too high
I would never be ashamed to politely make a reasonable offer. Most dealers and auctioneers are happy when people are interested in their offerings. If they are not, then you probably won't be successful dealing with them and you are probably being ripped off. If they have no room to move, they can tell you that or they can make you a counter offer. When negotiating in person or on the phone, I always maintain a friendly tone and ask "What is the best you can do for me on this one?" Then go from there. Sometimes I can negotiate a lower price and sometimes not. I never try to beat someone down on price by pointing out what is wrong with their coin. I usually praise the coins I want or other ones they have that I just like. That is much more effective because it makes you their colleague in enjoying coins versus their opponent. I would rather not have to negotiate but you are losing around 15-25% of your coin budget if you don't.
I think most of this has been answered pretty well so I wont repeat the information above. But a couple things to consider: You cant know which coins are consigned and which are not (unless they tell you), so you are going in blind on an offer. English dealers, in general, like Roma do not frequently discount. Its just not in the culture. Anyway, one will never know until one asks. All it takes is a quick and respectful e-mail telling them, "No, I cant pay the start price but I can pay $xxx." All that can happen is they say no.
