I got these two coins today, I was hoping someone could first, attribute them to an Emperor or Emperors, I know the reverses, and can't read the mint mark on the one with the left facing bust. Also on the one with the left facing bust, is that a shield he is holding? I bought these, and I see potential, alot of good detail beneath the rustyness on them both.... I've never cleaned an uncleaned roman coin before, or any coin... but it is done of course right?, like when late roman coppers like this are dug out of the ground and are encased in rust.... right? Would it be worth trying to clean them up a bit? If it's a foolish question then it will just be an excuse for a thread to get these attributed
also Another of the campgate reverse... it has a bit of a small chip as you can see. I also got this Constantinopolis one... I like it alot, and dont need to clean it. I was wondering, since the mintmark is off the flan on mine, were these all minted in Constantinople? or all over? and if anyone knows when and for how long these were minted? obv: CONSTAN-TINOPOLIS - Laureate, helmeted bust, holding scepter and wearing imperial mantle. rev: Victory stg. on prow, holding long scepter in r. hand, and resting l. hand on shield. In left field wreath
Constantinopolis were issued from several (not all) mints over 5-6 years near the end of the life of Constantine I and shortly afterward (at a few mints). They accompanied the regular types with two soldiers / two standards and the two soldier / one standard period. In some cases you can give a good guess as to the mint from the style of the coin even with no legends by comparing them to better examples but there will be no absolute certainty in most cases. Some mints regularly omitted the final S on the obverse which yours clearly has so you can rule them out. The site below has photos of reverses sorted by mints and could be helpful: http://www.catbikes.ch/helvetica/viconprow2.htm Don't ask me to make such decisions, however, I really prefer coins with mintmarks so I have no experience using this site.
Constantine (ConstantiNus) II and Constantius II both as Caesars and in that order. I'm a poor cleaner so someone else can advise on that. Always be careful to note the presence or absence of the N that separates the two names.
Thanks alot doug, hopefully someone can chime in about cleaning them up. I will check out that site and see if I can find a similar type of the Constantinopolis one. I can see good detail on both the uncleaned coins... like on the two soldiers-two standards one, you can see the base of one standard, and all the detail on the sheild the soldier on our left is holding. I couldn't even read the entire obverse titles to see or not see the 'N' but thank you. On the Constantius II campgate coin, it looks like 'PTR_' in exergue, so Trier, if I am not reading it incorrectly, also, on the same coin can you see what looks like a sheild he is holding on the obverse? or is that just me?
Looking at it more closely, I see your campgate is a rare item. It has the mintmark PTRE used with the shield bust. RIC catalog only lists this from the S workshop (number 2, P is Prima or #1) and that is an R5 or great rarity. I do not specialize in these and do not know if it has been reported previously. Unfortunately that chunk missing will keep you from getting rich but I suspect someone might be willing to trade it for something prettier and more common (like the bust left with no shield which is a common item. If not for the chunk missing, I'd suggest it might be worth paying someone to clean it but I do not know who. Note the page below has a STRE like your coin: http://www.beastcoins.com/Topical/Architecture/Campgate-Treveri/Treveri.htm The owner of this page is a dealer on VCoins and knows more about campgates than anyone. I would suggest contacting him for advice regarding the cleaning of the coin and see if anyone might want it as it is if you are willing to trade/sell it. The problem here is that some unlisted or R5 coins have turned up in such numbers that the current supply overwhelms the (very small) demand so no one would be interested in a damaged one. It is a sad fact that many of us have faced but there are coins in ugly shape that are the only one known but nobody cares. I do not know which situation fits your coin. I don't usually give out email addresses but when a guy has a VCoins store, he usually likes mail from people with rare coins so you could ask if there is any interest in a coin like this (send photo). http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/beastcoins/store/info.asp?page=ContactUs A word about ancients and rarity: Many of us that collect ancients like rare coins but relatively few of us are actively trying to gather a complete set of anything, let alone everything. Price often reflects condition over rarity especially when the difference between the rare and the common is a workshop letter. The shield obverse is more likely to bring interest but interest fades fast when a coin is ugly unless it is also very cheap.
It looks alot like a sheild, I do see the coin you speak of on the site, with the STRE and same bust. That one the 'shield' almost looks more like part of an extra fanciful cuirass or robes. I have sent an email with the photos, so we shall see. Thanks alot for the help, and noticing these things doug.
Well, he said he thinks its RIC VII, 506. And he also said that there is no sheild, it is just an extra fanciful bust. I am waiting to hear a reply about what I should do with it.
If that is the case, I wonder if the listing in RIC of a version with a shield is not just an error based on a similarly dirty coin that someone read as having a shield. The RIC listing quotes the Richborough Hoard from 1949 as source for 507 and I have no idea if that was based on an image or just someone's listing. If it is the common 506 and in the condition we see, the coin is of minimal value ($1-2). I apologize for reading the possibility of more interest based on the RIC listing (which has no image either).
Rex, as a starter to clean these you could put them in distilled water. The water lacks minerals and will help dissolve the mineral encrustation on the coins. Changing water and scrubbing with plastic to loosen up the dirt is the first place I start. After that, there are many resources on the net that will give opinions on how to clean coins, but in my experience anything more than water risks damaging the coin unless you know what you are doing. Chris
Well, don't worry doug, I didn't have my hopes up too high for a coin I paid $7 for. I just liked the fancy bust, even though it has no sheild, it's still fancy style and quite nice looking underneath all the crud. medoraman - Thanks, I think I will try the distilled water, and very soft brushes for now, if needed. I wouldn't want to try anything more. So if I just soak them in distilled water, will I actually be able to notice the crud dissolving into the water after a while? or will I need to scrub to get any of it off? The first coin I posted, the bust right, two soldiers reverse, looks to have a lighter colored encrustation on it, whereas the left facing bust one seems to have a more reddish rust colored encrustation that looks like it might be harder to clean. I'm going to try soaking the first one, right bust, two soldiers tonight. I'll let it sit in the distilled water for a while and see what happens.
I would just try the distilled water, changing it every few days and scrub with something wood or plastic to try to loosen the deposits. There are a lot of good websites on ancient coin cleaning, but a lot of the techniques take practice, and anything more severe than what I recommended I would try on cruddy coins first.
Allright, sounds good, I don't want to try anything severe or drastic.... I will see how it goes, and if there is marked improvement, I'll post some shots.... I'm just trying on the one Constantine II - two soldiers/two standards reverse... the crud on it looked like it might be easier to loosen up... I don't know, we shall see. Thanks for the help... I was planning on using a really soft toothbrush to scrub, but I also have softer brushes if needed.
I plan to, if I can get them looking at all better, that is. I decided to start soaking them both tonight, and I'll check them out in the morning.
Patience is an important ingredient (and one I lack). Some coins respond to soaking and changing the water (long before you see dirty water, it is no longer distilled so the effect is lessened as more minerals go into solution). Sometimes brushing or a well chewed toothpick is needed. Some require brass/steel tools with surgical precision. My problem is that I tend to wish I had stopped one step before I do and you can't restore damage done by overzealous cleaning.
Hm... good point, I will take it extra easy with the brushing.... these coins aren't responding too well to the soft toothbrush and soaking.... I've had them soaking for a couple days, changing the water regularly and brushing softly every now and then. I can't really see much difference yet.... I'll keep up on changing the water and lightly brushing... but it may take some time, like you said, patience.....
