Large Cent Brockage?

Recently picked this up and I am quite unsure what it is. The obverse appears to be inverted and double struck, while the back has a cracked look. It weighs 10.5 grams; well within the reasonable margin for an authentic large cent. Whats your opinion?

If enough people believe it is, I will try it at PCGS!

 

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Wow I think its a brockage that stuck to another planchet looks real from what I can tell but a major dramatic error

 

Looks more like someone tried to make their own error, but I'm not an expert.

 

Nice to see you joined CoinTalk Weston

 

Is dramatic and messed up looking but that mirror image obverse die is dead on and double struck off center the reverse is a mess granted my feel something got stuck to the dies and caused this mess in my opinion really cool compare hair details and hair cords to a large cent and you'll understand it better plus is so deeply impressed would need to be struck hard with great pressure in my opinion one of the wildest errors I've ever seen

 

The extreme damage on the reverse side to me indicates that this coin was tails-side down on a hard surface, while another coin was laid on top of it and hammered. That is just my opinion, I would certainly wait to hear from the experts before submitting it.

 

Understandable but the caliber of detail plus the extreme depth of the impression to me say its real copper on copper from another coin would have distorted and became muddy when subjected to the kind of pressure to make this deep of impression would take haredened steel ie a die

 

I'm looking at it from a technical standpoint while my specialty is woodworking I'm also fairly skilled at metalwork and blacksmithing and my first realization from studying it was the only way to fake it was with a discarded die or reproducing a steel die

 

Add that. To the uncirculated clear details of the obverse who's gonna ruin a clean unc 1851 large cent to make this my feel is it got stuck together with another to the obverse die and absolutely pounded that or it was a error double thick blank and it delaminated after being struck which of course would foul up the works as well

 

For this to be faked, it would take a high grade large cent that would have been destroyed.

 

Which merely means it is a very old fake. Made back when a high grade large cent was a cent or two.

I agree with Non_cents, this is a fabrication.

 

I can't say for sure - but I think it is cool no matter what. My opinion is that I think it could be original, but my knowledge is not as vast as a few others.

 

Thanks for looking everyone! Glad to see there is interest. It is a true conversation piece. I agree with those who say it would take a hardened steel die to create the amount of detail in the coin. Saying that, and seeing the patina on the coin would lead me to believe this is a genuine error coin. For someone to make this, it would require thousands of pounds of pressure. If that machinery was available to a counterfeiter, they would have done a much better job.

 

What's to stop a counterfeiter from doing this with a hardened steel transfer die? They already make very good ones for faking normal coins. Not a stretch by any means to do the same for faking errors.

 

Have you ever seen a "squeeze job" on a Lincoln Cent? Here is an example of one.

You can get more detail on a coin than you think, either by squeezing a coin or hammering it. In addition, a brockage would only affect 1 side of a coin. the other side would appear normal. Your coin has the characteristic appearance of a coin that was damaged on one side from being set down on a hard surface and hit by another object. Error-ref shows what a true full brockage looks like (which I think is what you say your coin is) http://error-ref.com/brockage--full.html

This is just my opinion, but if it were my coin, I wouldn't send it in.

 

By the way, here is an image of a broadstruck large cent with a full obverse brockage. Notice how the normal obverse is intact...not damaged like the one you posted.

 

I do understand what you guys are saying. It is certainly not a brockage in the terms both sides of the coin have the image. In fact, th inverted side is not stretched at all. I just called it a brockage because I didn't know what else to call it! However, this does not mean multiple coins were not jammed in the machine causing this. It IS possible for this to happen. I don't think I said this earlier, but all the lines in the middle of the stars are all there, and perfectly in tact. Don't you think they would have been a little washy and smeared if this were don't by a vice? I am completely unconvinced a hammer could do this.

 

But the device in incuse and reversed. A die could not do that. A hub could but the hubs were not dated.

Transfered from what? Transfer it from a coin and you have the same problem as you would from any other die. Once you struck it into the blank you would have a raised non-reversed image. Frankly what you see here is how you would make a transfer die, by driving a coin into the die blank.

Before the screw press was invented there was a device called a drop press. Simple device just a weight, say 100 pounds) lifted by a pulley with a guide so it could only go up and down. Build something like that, lift the 100 pounds oh say three feet and drop them onto a large cent on a copper slug. It will hit with a pressure of over 30 tons per square inch. It would drive the cent into the slug very nicely.

 

The only possible explanation for the general thing you see here would be a full obverse brockage uniface strike. That would completely obliterate the non-beockage side, leaving it blank. Your coin is not blank. The other side retains remnants of a normal strike (I can see parts of the LIBERTY headband remaining), meaning that this coin was struck normally, and subsequently damaged after it left the mint. The damage that side of the coin sustained is consistent with being laid on a flat surface and hit with another object.

 

That is what I was thinking - the first coin gets stuck in the machine, two planchets get loaded and the one in the middle looks like this after a couple of whacks. Then the mint employee catches the jam.

I think a hammer could also do it on one side, but I like the above better because it is more interesting. And no I have no facts on which might be correct. I would say you could always send it to a tpg, but they might not get it right also.