John Lennon Coin

What does everyone think of the new 2010 Coin released by the Royal Mint of John Lennon? Like it, don't like it? Think it was deserved or not? What are your feelings on it?

 

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Two other CT threads you can check out for thoughts on this coin

John Lennon Honored on Proof Coin...

John Lennon coin

 

His contributions to music notwithstanding, John Lennon was an anti-American beatnik who deserves NOTHING in the way of "honor." Therefore, I do not like the coin.

 

Lennon won his appeal in court on July 27, 1976 for U.S. Resident Alien status and obtained his 'green card' in order to work-- to earn a living making and playing music as a performing artist. Based on his Resident Alien status he was also informed that he would be eligible to apply for U.S. citizenship in 1981. He was murdered in 1980 before he had a chance to become an American citizen.

 

Most definitely not anti-American nor a beatnik, anti-war..yes and peacenik..yes. Was a credit to the World community and would have been a great asset as a US citizen.

 

It seems to me that a silver coin is a strange way to honor someone who is notably anti-personal possessions. :scratch:

 

That is quite true Gipper and yet it was not Lennon nor the Lennon estate who proposed the idea but rather a poll conducted by the UK Royal Mint that solicited public support:

From John Lennon Commemorative Coin on Sale at UK Royal Mint [12/7/2010]

I thought this was a nice but equally an odd gesture given the 'no possessions' idea:

 

You got that right!! Lennon loved the US!! The coin is very nice looking, I'd like to have one but they're a bit pricey for my budget!

 

I said it before and I will say it again.



There were four Beatles.

John, Paul, George, Ringo.

 

Maybe they were running out of ideas. Most of his money was invested in real estate. That would probably count as possession. Sure liked his music.

 

Krispy, I won't bother verifying the facts you put forward, because they have absolutely nothing to do with the fact he was anti-American. They have everything to do with his pursuit of citizenship, but not with being anti-American. I think you're assuming that any citizen is automatically pro-American, which is simply not the case, otherwise you wouldn't have brought that up as a counter to my argument.

Lennon was anti-American, going much beyond being anti-war. He was anti-soldier, falling in with the popular sentiment of the time which blamed Vietnam on the individual soldier.

Incidentally, do you know how many times the Army has declared war or started a war? Zero. It's not in our power to do so. In fact, there are probably more anti-war people in the Army than out of it, because we have no delusions of war being romantic or "glorious." Most of us today have seen war's real side, and we'll be the last to want one.

But Lennon and his beatnik, pot-smoking disciples blamed the soldier, rather than elected officials who made the decisions. We are merely an instrument, devoting our lives to the most difficult lifestyle possible to protect our freedoms. If / when we are misused, it is the fault of the politicians whom the electorate give the power to use or misuse us.

That was beyond Lennon's understanding in those days. People credit him with being some type of enlightened philosopher, but in reality he was just a good musician / songwriter whose only "enlightenment" came from the ganja he was smoking.

 

Sorry, not buying into your arguement. Definitely not anti-American no matter how many times you say otherwise.

BTW again not a beatnik, not that there is anything wrong with that. Some very influential and well respected poets were a part of that club, Allen Ginsberg, Jack Kerouac, and William Burroughs just to name a few. The beatniks gave way to the hippies, with the peaceniks being part of that.

The definition - beatnik n. A person, especially a member or follower of the Beat Generation, whose behavior, views, and often style of dress are pointedly.

 

Mac, I sense that your strong opinion is one that may be coming from that of a soldier. If that is so, I wish to thank you for your service.

The public image and plight of soldiers in that era suffered great disrespect, but it was a challenging time when many things were strongly debated and questioned, and MANY different types of people suffered many injustices as well.

In my earlier comments, I assumed nothing. I only stated facts, which you are clearly uninterested in hearing about as they are only bringing up feelings about someone who symbolized something else that irritates you to this day. I don't want to digress into a personal debate about you and your opinions but they seem to be the very basis for expressing yourself against this coin, this symbol and that man as a symbol for many things that you feel differently about, making this thread a platform for you to air your own grievance.

Lennon touched many people, enough that those admirers of coins and Lennon around today along with the program from the UK Royal Mint together found enough interest in issuing a cultural commemorative piece. Lennon was inarguably a definer of popular culture, music culture and political culture of that time. He has thus been honored in his home country with this coin, not by the U.S. nor the U.S. Mint, regardless of his rebellion in or toward the UK and abroad.

Here we are not talking about you, but rather a person who struggled to live his own life like any other individual, he just happened to be a celebrity and had to deal with the media and politicians for being a rebellious vocal celebrity. He eventually chose to pursue his own freedoms in the U.S. and did so by legally seeking residency like any other immigrant must do to this country. There's a recent film that would be good for anyone interested in this topic to see: The US vs. John Lennon

The facts of his petition for permanent residency in the U.S. are another matter here entirely. It was of course a VERY public and long drawn out case which received a lot of media attention. There were also many obstacles placed in this path by the administration then in charge of this country that created many financial difficulties for him to overcome, but which ultimately did not restrict his entry into the U.S. as a permanent resident alien.

After many trials, the final decision was made in Lennon's favor. The Chief Judge of the US Court of Appeal expressed the following in this decision

"If, in our two hundred years of independence, we have in some measure realized our ideals, it is in large part because we have always found a place for those committed to the spirit of liberty and willing to help implement it. Lennon's four-year battle to remain in our country is testimony to his faith in this American dream.

Accordingly, the denial of Lennon's application for adjustment of status and the order of deportation are vacated and the case remanded for reconsideration in accordance with the views expressed in this opinion."

This statement and full details are a matter of public record and can be found online here: United States Court of Appeals No. 18. Docket 74-2189

When asked on camera by journalists if he (Lennon) bore and grudge against the politicians and offices of the United States that sought to deport him and prevent him from obtaining residency, Lennon said after hearing the decision in his favor, "I believe time wounds all heals." A bit of truthful humor from an eloquent speaker.

Despite my offering of all of these further facts which you don't want to hear and discuss, I will make it even easier for you to win your Lennon was an anti-American argument… while he never had the chance to become an American citizen and it remains an unknown whether he would have ever sought that designation, and despite being born English and never exactly rejecting that nationality either, he was a person who in response to his world in chaos, came to question the rationality of claiming any nationality dividing and defining all of mankind… You must know the lyrics from his most popular song Imagine, "Imagine there's no countries. It isn't hard to do. Nothing to kill or die for." That is perhaps the strongest "anti-American" statement he ever made and one which could work for everyone if we just give peace a chance.

 

^Krispy, the major source of our disagreement is you assume a person's citizenship or their stances for / against the US government have something to do with whether they were anti-American. That is your beginning assumption, and it is one I cannot accept. You continue to outline his court battles, residency, etc., but they are all tied to the US government. In fact, it tells me you either didn't bother to read my post, or you refuse to see my point of view.

The point I tried to make is: I don't give a rip about Lennon's attitude toward the US GOVERNMENT, his residency, visa application, or citizenship. Being anti-American and battling the US government in court have nothing to do with one another.

Elegant speaker? Yes. Influenced music and popular culture? Unquestionably. World class musician and songwriter? Absolutely. Anti-American? He and Jane Fonda will smoke pot together in Hell when she has the decency to join him there.

 

In a word, Hideous!

 

I don't care who you are or what you believe, that's a good line, right there. Laughed out loud.

 

With the glaring exception that John Lennon never visited the enemy camps to support their war effort like Hanoi Jane did. I think someone has had too much of the Vietnam era military koolaide. It appears that if you were pro-peace you were anti-American.

 

Mac, I made no such assumption but you keep trying to say I did. It's not my point.

I've tried to contain this discussion to the subject of the OP without getting into your personal opinions, but you refuse to look at facts and stay on topic. Instead you again circled back to your own personal biases, supporting stereotypes that you use to label others and place some sort of blame on them for whatever it is you feel slighted by. That is what I read from your first comment, it has nothing to do with the coin, but rather your personal opinion and complaint about something the coin represents.

Like I said, this is turning into your personal platform for judging others and this isn't the place for it. I gave you facts that show that the man (Lennon) abided by the laws of the land in obtaining his residency and was committed to the ideals of people like those U.S. citizens and other immigrants that seek personal freedom and liberty in this country. He wasn't trying to be an American, he was trying to help bring about global peace and found a welcoming spirit in the US to go about it. I further explained his anti-ANY-nation stance proclaimed in his song Imagine was a way for envisioning peace. If you could create peace by being anti-anything, then do it! If you have to be anti-American or anti-hamburger eatting, or anti-baseball watching/playing to get peace, then do it! That was the message. With no nations dividing people between borders and erroneously perceived differences, there might not be nation vs. nation conflict and war. He personally believed war to be immoral. He called for peace and morality, sought truth and justice and spoke out to expose corruption that did anything to perpetuate war and prevent peace.

If you were a victim of the governments war machine that is regretable, but not entirely your fault either. I'm sure you served the country well and did what you were told within your best reasoning at the time, but your stance has become ensconced in bitterness toward the symbolic figures of an era that were blamed by the status quo for undermining just about everything that was going wrong then, when it has been proven to be quite the opposite.

The U.S. and Nixon failed to bar Lennon his residency to the U.S. but Nixon failed the US greatly and was forced to resign for his actions.

 

1- I never said he did, but I did lump the two of them together as anti-American.

2- I never said being pro-peace makes one anti-American. In fact, yours truly, an officer in the US Army, was AGAINST going to war in Iraq. However, I fought the Republican Guard in 2003 and helped overthrow Hussein. It's my job and my duty, my personal feelings notwithstanding. So no, I do NOT believe a pro-peace person is anti-American. If I did, I'd be quite the hypocrite.

I do believe that being anti-soldier and blaming the soldiers for the decisions of elected officials is quite anti-American. Lennon and Fonda are both guilty of that one. Granted, Lennon never took his actions far enough to be considered treasonous, just enough for me to hate him. Fonda...well she's another story. If I was king for a day she'd be hanging from a noose.

 

Man you have some vicious views.