I've officially lost hope (early copper grading)

TPG have not a clue.... HOW... Just HOW!!? Please explain to me how this is a PROBLEM FREE coin. In what universe?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1794-1c-PCG...88?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item2ed735d04c

 

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Extreme wear, even to the point of making the coin almost invisible, is not considered a problem. It only needs to be identifiable. I think it's more like an AG-3. Could be poor photographs not helping either. He is shooting the picture through the slab. I'll bet it sells for at least $200 or more.

 

I have an S-31 graded G-4 by PCGS (in an old green holder nonetheless) with more wear on the reverse than yours. It has smoother surfaces and a stronger obverse, but the reverse is barely visible. I think there's a lot of market grading going on. I'd post a picture but it is in my safe deposit box.

 

I'm not really talking about the wear on this as much as I am the disregard for the environmental damage. The corrosion on this coin is really bad. I understand the planchet issue with these coins but this example to certify with the lead TPG is sad to me.

 

I agree with you. I don't like it when one of these slips through. Still, there is a higher tolerance in the early date copper in regard to Environmental Damage. I've seen a few like this, and it just reinforces the point of buy the coin, not the holder.

 

That's what I'd expect a 200+ year old coin to look like. Yeah it's a little porous but looks OK to me.

 

Market graded. PCGS has set the price with that grade.

 

Looks fine to me as well. I can show you 1000 similar examples.

 

That's a G-04?

Then mine is an XF, not an AG

 

While I agree that you can find several examples just like this holdered, I think you could find at least that many in problem holders. In my opinion, the owner was fortunate on this coin. Still, you have to ask yourself what you'd pay for this coin raw. Just because it graded cleanly according to PCGS, does not mean it deserves a premium price based on the coin inside the plastic. I know others would disagree, and I respect that, but I would not pay one dime more on this coin based on it being in a PCGS holder than I would for an ANACS/ICG or raw coin.
*I say this last part because I normally acknowledge that holdered coins in graded PCGS / NGC holders are more valuable in most coin transactions.*

 

I don't agree with the grade. More AG and isn't it pitted.

 

I won't pass judgment on the grade. But I've ordered several coins from DLRC and his photos never do the coins justice. Every coin I've received have been way better in hand than the photo. I think they scan their photos and don't take quality pics. I've ordered CC Morgans where you can barely see the CC and in hand they are perfect. It could be the picture making it look like environmental damage when it's not.

 

No I think it's corrosion.. what else could make the photo's look like that besides the real thing?

 

I believe you are right.. and I hate to think this, but I spent 4 months searching for one of these coins and I was appalled by how many I have seen like this. Although this particular coin from DLRC is the most appalling miss I've ever seen. PCGS in particular is so easy on Liberty Caps. I really think they are trying to supply the market in the lower grades because there is definitely a demand there. I just think it is a shame that a TPG would sacrifice their integrity to satisfy market demand. Buy the coin not the holder is huge if you collect early copper that is for sure. The funny thing is though, I bet this coin does very well. Final price should break 300, when out of the slab I doubt it brings more than like 150.

 

Doug:

You scare me lately, I can save a lot of time by just quoting your posts!

 

See www.largecents.net I have a 1794 Liberty Cap much better than the one in question from this guy for $150. Of course it's not in a TPG holder. PM me if you want to see it. I have 2 of these great coins. But they are G 6 ish for sure.

 

In the TPG universe. That is why new collectors need to be able to identify these type issues before just blindly buying a TPG coin or even a raw coin. Here lately I can't find a problem free raw large cent on ebay I would buy. And I also skip most of the graded ones also - just too many have issues(dates I am looking at). And stay away from bad pictures - some of those hide issues that you catch with the coin in had. I primarily search middle and late date large cents on heritage.

PS - Jbgood recommended a good copper dealer.

Here is just one of my many purchases from Tom - a beauty for sure.

 

Cough cough, and here we are again. Another new listing, another new garbage grade from PCGS. http://www.ebay.com/itm/1794-Flowin...56?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item43d06d8fa4

 

It's not the only one. There are lots of them - I just learned to skip them. Otherwise I could post coin after coin with problems in NGC or PCGS holders.