Is this coin a VG-8?

I'm thinking this 1798 Large Cent that I scored recently on Ebay looks nice enough to grade a VG-8. But let me confer with the resident experts. What do you guys think? VG-8? Problem free??

 

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G6 TPG grade to me -- I'd want to see a bit more obverse detail for VG. I might pay a bit more than normal g6 pricing because of the coin's originality, so if the coin were graded and priced as a VG it wouldn't bother me much.

That said, the coin does have a few issues. A small rim bruise and some reddish corrosion. Neither are problematic to me at this grade and frankly are much preferable to being stripped and recolored as you so often find these coins.

Regardless of the above, it's a nice coin, and certainly much better than most of this grade/date.

Very nice pickup, IMO, and a coin I'd be happy to own.

Have you identified the variety yet?

 

No, I have not. Can you tell which variety it is?

 

Not to my eye, even discounting the rim bump. I'd call it a G6 with nice surfaces.

 

I'm sure I could -- even this worn you can generally attribute them.

However, there are 40-ish varieties of 1798 out there, and I don't quite have the time to do it now. Perhaps someone else will help (for instance Conder can generally do these from memory, and Marshall is also quite good), and if not I'll try and do it sometime this weekend or early next week....Mike

p.s. it's clearly a "style 2" or "type 2" obverse, which will narrow it down (Style 2's for 1798 are S-165 to S-187). You can tell because of the extra circular curl of hair on the obverse above and left of the "1" in the date.

p.s.s. If you go to Heritage, and pay close attention to the following attributes, I'll bet you could attribute it yourself: (1) Positioning of LIBERTY against the bust and the spacing of the letters, (2) position and spacing of date, (3) position of wreath to UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, (4) "1/100" position and spacing, and (5) spacing of ONE CENT and it's position against the wreath. For example, go to ha.com and do a search for 1798 s-165 and compare that to your coin, you will quickly notice that the 8 in the date is different, as is the position of T in LIBERTY against the bust. Rinse & repeat.

 

Thanks. It's not crucial for me to know as I don't collect them by variety anyway. I'm more of a "type" collector than I am a serious large cent collector. It's the relatively corrosion free and scratch free surfaces of this draped bust cent that caught my eye. I've owned several others in the past and most of them suffered from porosity or verdigris or pitting as it seems is so often the case with these EACs.

 

How right you are.

 

nice coin

 

http://www.pcgs.com/photograde/#/DrapedBustCent/Grades
I agree G6.

 

Its a solid g6 and has a chance at g8.
Its worth getting slabbed and is a nice specimen IMO

 

Nice pickup - the angle of the pictures prevents me from trying to attribute it. Marshall could do it, but I can't get it to line up.

 

I paid $126 for it including shipping. Numismedia lists the coin at $90 in G-4 and $168 in VG-8. So I guess I paid G-6 money for it. Imo, that is a fair price and I left the seller positive feedback.

 

G6 Gopher, but you buy what you like. I never had a problem paying more for a coin or token that I liked for whatever reason. I'll always pay more for a piece that I want to add to my collection. Value or price are irrelevant to me if the coin appeals to me. Nice find Gopher!

Bruce

 

I do like the coin and think it helps round out my collection nicely. As far as price being irrelevant so long as the coin appeals to you I find to be an interesting topic worthy of a discussion thread all its own. Is it not a bad thing to overpay for a coin or anything else for that matter? Is it not important to try to get the most value for our dollar? What if we want to sell some of our coins someday in the future? Is it not nice to know that we will be able to get back most, if not all, of our investment?

 

I would grade this coin G4/VG8, so average G6 is about correct. As far as variety, closest I can get to pinning it down is S-169 (R-3) or 171 (R-4).
Nice coin with smooth surfaces for the grade, as far as I can discern from the photo.

 

I agree with you both mostly. With large cents the better and more centered a planchet the more the premium it will drive. At the same time you need to be aware of the breaking point for pricing - no reason other than for when you go to sell. At the same time the variety and/or date will play a factor in the pricing. Another reason to work with a seller (or if doing it yourself) that knows what they are doing. Typical brick and mortar shops buy without considering the variety - yet then may price based on the variety. My local shop does not attribute every large cent they get when they put it out for sell. At the same time you may see the perfect coin for your collection and be willing to layout the extra cost to get it. All my opinion.

 

Nice coin! I was thinking VG8 only because of the date. It seems that the oldies get graded on a different scale. I wouldn't argue with a G4 or G6 though.

 

Ok! Here's what I see:

1. Type 2
2. Small 8
3. H(ighest) W(ave) (of) H(air) left side to left of upright of R.
4. P(oint) (of) C(url) under inner curl of B.
5. Shoulder Loop under bust extends far to the right of the top of the 8 before rejoining the bust.

Now the combination of 3 and 5 pretty much define it as the S-176 (Obverse 22).

Now here's the more exciting part for you. The S-176 is usually accompanied by a crack in the right field which is not apparent on your coin. By chance it is the same verticle crack I am using to ID what I think is a new variety on a really beat up coin I've posted elsewhere. While the same obverse is used on other pairings, this is the only one without a crack on some early examples.

There is no doubt this is an early die state example. Exactly how early I can't tell from the picture. But here is Breen's comments on the early die states:

I. Perfect Obverse Die. Clapp claims a perfect reverse die, which would mean it was struck before the last of number 23 (S-162). Clapp 28-O. Unconfirmed as described and doubtless Extremely Rare if it exists.

II. Faintest partial traces of a vertical obverse crack, not always visible on worn specimens. Reverse chip between D S is larger. Very Rare.

III. Crack in field above S OF A, at first faint. Clapp 28-Ob. Rare.

R4 by the way as a variety.

 

I excluded the S-177 and S178 Reverses just for grins and also noted that even the earliest Holmes Reverse O (he included three die state S176s) showed a break over the ER on the reverse. I can't see it on yours, though it could be lighting. Now this reverse was also used on the S-160 and S-162. There it wasn't cracked, but had a couple of die scratches running vertically above the E and R to the rim.

I would suggest not entombing it until a copper expert has examined it.

 

Wow, thanks for taking the time to attribute it for me. It sounds like you really know your stuff when it comes to identifying these Large Cent varieties. Now, in layman terms, what does all that mean? Is this most likely a rare and valuable unknown variety?