Is there room for everyone in this hobby?

I am an avid, if new and somewhat uneducated collector. I am reading every book I can buy to learn, but still know how much I'll never know...
But, here is the question I pose the board members: is the coin collecting hobby tolerent of all the different types of collectors, or do you have to be an 'on the tradeshow floor with 20 years of experience' to fit in? It sounds silly, but I have found that it is a hobby that in many ways makes it tough to belong if you don't fit the mold. Ebay is one example, as is the PCGS message boards, where the elite seem to take every opportunity to bash 'wanabees' and anyone who does not view the hobby their way. Me, I love coins... I love buying them, and selling them to buy others. I don't always know a good deal when I get one, and I get ripped on occassion, and I overgrade and undergrade, but I try to get it all right and have fun. Yet, there are many who would say 'you don't belong here' because somehow, you should not buy, or sell any coin of value until you 'truly' understand its value. In fact, I see endless posts about how wrong it is to try to buy wholesale since you should pay top dollar and get your coin from a reputable dealer who has the right to pay wholesale...
I am hoping this board is different, and recognizes that hobbies need to adapt and to allow new people in to learn their way and eventually take the hobby forward. If younger (and I mean experience wise, not age) hobbiests don't come in because they are not afforded respect and genuinely invited to learn and partake in their own way, then won't the hobby just wither and die?
So, am I crazy, or is the numismatic world a difficult one to wander around in? Is there room for those that don't care about the 'art' but love the coins just because they look cool, or are fun to dig through, and all of that? I have frankly been so disapointed in other boards, and the attacks and snide jabs, that I wonder if this hobby is worth pursuing. Heck, even my local coin store owner is snide about my knowledge, somehow hinting I should know more before I come through the doors.

 

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Some of the best Major Leaguers started off playing Tee Ball.....

 

BTW, Welcome to the forum!!

 

thanks, I liked the look of this site, and the general talk seemed freindly. I hope to learn and contribute. Starting off with a beefy question seemed like a fun way to jump in!
I don't contribute in many forums (only one other, and after recent attacks, I'm outa there...) Not that I'm not thick skinned, but life is to short to have a battle of wits with the witless... I just want to be part of this wonderful world of coins! Love 'em... I have expended way too much money in way to short a time in this facination! Now I must speed up learning process...

 

Richard, there are a lot of folks that think the same as you. There are more of the "good ones" vs the "bad ones". I use these terms for lack of a better word if you know what I mean. Local coin clubs sometimes offer a good outlet. I havent been on this board as long as the others but I can say that the posts have changed from when I first started. Lots of the posts you just have to take it with a grain of salt. It is very hard to try and understand what a person is trying to say when you have to read vs see and listen in person...at least it is for me hehheh. I think this is a good place and who knows....this may be your "nitch" LOL!!! Trust me, you are not alone in your search. Hang in there and collect for the fun of it and collect whatever you like....I know I do and I could care less if i didnt get a spectacular deal or if it isnt worth anything etc etc.

 

I think that the greatest drawback of boards is that they are anonomous, therefore they invite rudeness and personal attacks. You see it everywhere, and it drives away many that you'd love to talk to. Almost worse for me is the condescending 'come back when you know enough' type comments, and that is what I hope to avoid. That is what I hope is not prevalent here. I want to learn from the experienced folks, but maybe insert some new ideas that they could think about and accept at face value (instead of just hating that ebay, the internet, and tpg's have changed the industry forever). Things change, they always do, but the best way to preserve the 'best of the industry' is to share and encourage others to learn good things and care about the hobby. The smug attacks always seem counter productive to me.

 

Remember everyone has to start somewhere.You are lucky as you have found the forums.Everyone starts somewhere and in between there they some times forget about most of the people and become elitests.You should go over to the PCGS forum and join as they dont bight.Usually!Along the way you will meet people who don't think you belong but most will welocme you.Unless you collect modern junk then you should leave and never come back

 

I lurk at PCGS but there is a poster there that talks about 'wanabee' coin sellers that set my teeth on edge (as if the free market system can't support every type of selling and buying that is available to it). So, I may pass on PCGS. They also fall into that PCGS slab or garbage trap, which I just don't subscribe to.
As to modern trash! Well, I only collect modern treasures! So, we'll be okay on that mark.

 

Just avoid the posts on wannabes and you should be fine.You also have to be careful about making comments on PCGS or you will get flamed more than a BK whopper!Also it sounds like you may have a PCGS problem?Please tell.Also it's good you collect only "modern treasures" because this hobby doesn't need any more of them modern trash collectors

 

This is a fairly good site but you'll see the condescending attitude at all the coin message boards. The PCGS site is good also though some of the "bashers" are more vocal there than at other places. While I don't believe this is good behavior, keep in mind most of these people are doing what they believe is right. While I and many newbies believe it is very misguided and detrimental to the hobby, they believe they are protecting the unwary, ignorant and inexperienced.

In any case there are very knowledgeable collectors at most of the boards who are very happy to help a newbie no matter what he collects or how he collects it. The best bet for me is to just ignore much of posts and all of the attack (as possible) and concentrate on learning and sharing knowledge.

Good luck. I'm sure your experience here will be a positive one.

 

Not so much a PCGS problem, as surprisingly good experiences with the others. As part of 'learning' I went and bought some lower value PCGS Morgan slabs in several MS ratings. I use them as bench marks along with other tools. I then used some other TPG's (bought some coins already slabbed, and sent a group out to several). Okay, there are bottom feeders, for sure, such as the famous SGS and others with 99% MS70 coins, but mostly I find that there are just differing 'opinions' and the other TPG (Nugrade for common coins, and more recently I've tried ACCGS) also have hardworking smart graders offering a solid, backed by experience grade to their coins. So, I like the underdog... I get the coin cheaper, because for some obtuse reason, a peice of plastic labeled PCGS makes a coin 40% more valuable than a piece of plastic housing that same coin with the label ACCGS on average. That strikes me as the greatest ad to buy from other services! After all, don't we all want the best COIN at the best price???
Anyhow, and on to moderns, I do avidly collect modern proof's and commemoratives (I have every proof, prestige, and premier set) from 1957 on, and am working on the older ones, as well as a collection of lose high quality proofs from 1964 on that numbers about 1,200 lovely coins. It is the heart of my current collection. However, my new love is Morgan's and Peace dollars (or just about anything toned!) Too many great choices of what to collect. I also dabble in large cents, and other 1800's coins. I have a huge purchase due today (my biggest buy ever!) and I am so damned excited I'd like to just go home and see it!
(with a name like cladking, I think that at least one member may appreciate my modern clad proof collection!)

 

Welcome to the forum. I haven't been here long myself, but have come to enjoy and greatly appreciate the wealth of knowledge and experience represented by this forum. As has been mentioned, anywhere there are human beings involved, you will find your range of "characters", but on a whole, the tone here is very friendly. I feel that the "senior" collectors here (not neccisarly a note on age ) genuinely care about the hobby, and enjoy sharing it through the education of the new, not the discrimination.

Again, welcome

 

Richard before you start messing with those bottomfeeding TPG's you mentioned you should stick with the big four NGC,PCGS,ANACS, and ICG in no particular order.Once you feel you are good at grading then you can dive into the top bottomfeeders like PCI and SEGS.

 

For me, part of the fun is taking risks. I buy some large estate auctions, knowing I could get gold, or crud. I like doing that, and am lucky enough to be able to afford it. I also don't mind getting a great deal, knowing it, and gladly selling off part at another great deal, just so that I can move on, even though a little time and research might double what I could sell for. Does that make sense? If I buy a huge lot at public auction for $6,000 and find it is worth $12,000. I may take out the stuff I can afford to keep, and then sell of the rest for the same $6,000 I put in, even if, fully attributed and detailed, it may be worth $8,000. Its just the way I collect. Buy a lot, and take my profit out as a few of the coins I want, and sell the rest to keep cash flow moving as needed. I don't educate myself on value, because it does not matter to me, its a hobby, not a way to make a living. Am I crazy? Don't know. Does it engeander cynicism... sure, at times. I have a regular job, and do not look at coins as a way to make money at all. I am fortunate in that I can afford to buy large lots and auctions. I understand enough to determine what my risks appear to be, but I am years away from being perfect on that account. But, I win some and I lose some, and on the whole I have built a significant collection and kept my cash flow about even, without feeling ripped off, or that I have every ripped someone else off. I find that, in coin collecting, better deals do come to those with larger bank rolls. Fair? Don't know, but no different than anywhere esle. If you want to save money on toilet paper, you buy 100 rolls at costco, not 4 rolls at safeway. I buy big, and have continued to find some success, and an ability to sell off the rest at still fair prices. There may be gems I let go of... but is that not the incentive for the next guy to buy my extras? That they can then attribute those coins and work hard on the lot and make money, or increase their collections value? I am a strange mix of collector, and speculator, I suppose.

 

Greetings ! I am a new collector myself (13 months), but unfortunately that doesn’t keep me from posting ! But I try and contain it to things I think I know about, and I welcome criticisms and corrections to any of my posts here (especially including this one). I ask questions to learn and try and contribute information when I can, and I try and contribute to the sense of community when I can (usually by providing encouragement or making bad jokes).

I had been thinking about many of the issues you mentioned. I read the same “wannabe” threads on the other site. I totally reject the definition of collector that the wannabe thread starter espoused, even though I’m sure he is 100-times more skilled and experienced collector than I am. To do that, I have to understand what I think a collector is.

I’m thinking that people who keep coins maybe fall into three broad categories: the hoarder, the investor, and the collector. Some people may fit more than one category.

The investor purposefully acquires coins for resale at a profit later. He understands the coin business enough to be able to buy at reasonable prices coins that can reasonably be expected to increase in value.

The hoarder keeps coins for some of the same reasons as the investor, except is not knowledgable about the business and doesn’t have a plan; he gets a shiny golden Sacagawea in change and throws it into his cigar box of coins that will be “worth a fortune some day.” Typically he doesn’t buy coins.

The collector is one who keeps coins for their own sake; he enjoys them for various reasons between the time he acquires them and the time he sells them (if ever). He enjoys looking them, he studies them, he learns more about them. Typically he will be acquiring coins to fulfill a particular type of set: a date set of Jefferson nickels, a date and mint set of Mercury dimes, a Type set of 19th century coinage. It might be something more arcane: civil war coins or medieval Roman coins. A more hard core collector might be working towards completing a Registry set.

There are various numismatic skills that these collectors might possess in varying degrees. Grading is a skill that separates more casual collectors from more serious collectors. At the simplest level is the ability to distinguish between poor, fair, good, and fine circulated coins. At a higher skill level is the ability to grade uncirculated coins, particularly at the higher grades.

Some collectors are simply filling out folders from pocket change. Some are filling out a folder with a map with state quarters.

Some are acquiring Morgans and are attentive to an amazing level of minutia: varieties within the subtypes within the type. These are some of the more expensive coins, and grading skills are not a luxury because of the steep differences in price between slight differences in grade, particularly in the better grades.

Some affluent collectors are acquiring very expensive old gold coins. Deep pockets and an ability to authenticate are probably the prime requirements here.

To my mind, you can enjoy collecting at any of these levels. To say that someone isn’t a real collector because he doesn’t grade and collects only state quarters or ASEs is false; he’s merely a different kind of collector with different levels of involvement, expertise, and interest.

Just my uncirculated 0.02.

 

I'd like to think I am interested in the middle of the road. Not SEGS, but not PCGS. I am 'okay' at grading, which is to say learning, and feeling like each month I need to go back and regrade what I've done before, cause I was too leanient, perhaps in the dream of having a more valuable collection! I have enough resources to do decent comparisons now, and I know that for my collection, a slabed coin that has a PCGS value of $200 bought for $180 in a PCGS holder is not worth more to me than an equivalent coin for $120 in a lower tier holder.
I don't think most of the TPG's who are not top tier are bottom feeders! That seems harsh. I think that they are industry people trying hard to make a living and do a good job at it. A small percentage does not fit that. I can honestly say that the Nugrade slabs I have (generally newer coins, valued from $10 to $30 only) have been as accurate as I'd expect. Not coins valuable enough to go to PCGS, but nice coins from the last 30 years, including nice MS65 state quarters. Same goes for ACCGS. They seem legit, and trying to make a go of being a legit third party grader. $9 per submission is a nice thing to!
I don't dislike PCGS in any way, and I have PCGS coins. I just think the others have a solid place in this game, and some of them could end up being the 'big guy' in a decade. Eventually, those on top are displaced by those who are more flexible, adaptable, and eager to provide service. Nothing 'bottom feeder' like about that, is there?

 

And Bacchus, I agree with one exception: the modified groupings, like myself. I am a collector, who uses investment like techniques to build my collection. Investing in and of itself is not interesting in this arena, but using the concept of buy low and sell higher to be able to fund the next purchase and acquire new coins for my permanent collection... now that is fun!

 

Richard ask anyone who the big four are and they will mostlikely tell you the same list I said.Now PCi is bottom feeding now.They used to be good but now it's bottom feeding heavan.As far as SEGS welcome to the top bottom feeder.By the way NUgrade come on.I have seen there holders and they are CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP!!!I wouldn't mind buying bottom feeder slabs it is just that then I crackem and send them to a good place.If you want to deal with these "grading services" thats your own thing and to each his own.For most people though you have to be seasoned just a tad before geting into the low tier "grading services" pool.