I have recently started to collect coins of the Roman emperors. Most are just copper/bronze, but now I have some of the pricier silver denarii. I've been buying the silver from Littleton. Now, I know Littleton is "overpriced", but their quality is good and they stand behind their coins (and, hey!, I'm just a beginner and I need lots of help in just identifing the coins!). Is there an accessible price guide to Roman coins? I'd like to get an idea just how "overpriced" my coins are so I can decide whether the Littleton guarantee of genuineness is worth the extra cost. Any help will be appreciated. You folks have helped me out in the past and I hope you can do it again!
First of all, I just looked at Littleton, and their prices are pretty crazy. There are plenty of reliable dealers who offer guarantees at least as good as Littleton's. Forvm Ancient Coins is the biggest one, though it tends to be a bit pricey (but not Littleton pricey), but you should also check out Bargain Bin Ancients and VCoins, which is a group of individual sellers that requires all members to offer lifetime guarantees of authenticity (Forvm and BBA do this as well). You should quickly find that all of the above are better options than Littleton in every aspect, particularly price. As for your main question, the closest thing that I know of is Sear's Roman Coins and Their Values series, but those are very expensive, and their really only a rough guide. Probably your best bet is to look around those sites I linked and compare between them.
Well I hate to break it to you but their guarantee isn't worth diddly squat. Sure their coins are gonna be genuine that's why they've been in business for so long, but is it really worth a 50-75% markup? With the internet at your fingertips, you could do alot better than Littleton that's for sure!! Welcome to the forum, now do yourself a favor and start shopping around!! hya: :kewl:
I have dealt with Forvm http://www.forumancientcoins.com/ direct and on ebay. On ebay, they have both buy it now (BIN) as well as regular auctions ( usually on Sundays). The regular auctions are a good indicator of current pricing for me, especially as I get outbid Their forum is also excellent, and their attribution seems right on. Since my knowledge of ancients is in its infancy, I need the information also. Jim
I was a bit slow to post this lol, but here it is anyway Theres "Roman Coins and their Values" by David R. Sear (can be pricey though), but I just compare prices with vcoins.com and forumancientcoins.com .Might wana check them out, and their Guarantee.
There can never be a price guide for ancients because there are just too many variables both in the coins and in the collectors buying them. Some, mostly beginners, consider any coin of an emperor to be the same to them since they want only one coin and could care less which one they have. Others of us not only want a specific type but want a specific die of that type and a coin that shows clearly some specific detail to the point that we would pay more for a VG showing that detail than for a VF that was off center just enough to lose one letter. Your best guide would be to watch comparable sales on Forvm, VCoins etc. and ignore anything that you see selling for more unless you understand what made that particular coin worth more to that particular buyer AND you agree with him that it was worth the extra. Books with "and their Values" in the title rarely explain what considerations you need to apply to separate seemingly similar coins from one another. Comapring a dozen examples of a type that actually sold may tip you off to the difference between a $10 and a $100 example.
Thank you all for taking the time to answer me and to provide the web-sites I need. I really appreciate it. I guess I'm one of those beginners that just wants to get a coin from each emperor and will probably run out of steam before I become a real "collector" of ancients. But, since that's probably the case, I'd better start being more thrifty if I'm going to get through all the emperors, especially if I start adding silver! Thanks again for all the info.
Yes, if you have $600 to spend on their services and only collect high end coins offered by major auction houses, Coin Archives is a great resource. If you collect something that has not sold in the last few months (where they cut off the free listings) or if you are interested in the 99% of ancient coins that are beneath the notice of major auction houses, searching there can be less fruitful. A bit better is acsearch but most of their listings are still not what beginners are likely to be considering. The problem with a price guide is that ancients do not grade easily. Modern coins fit to a degree into the Sheldon 70 (or is it 700 now?) but 99% of ancients have a stituation (damaged, cleaned, artificially toned etc.) that would cause them to be body bagged by standards used for modern coins. How much each of these factors applies to price is very much a hard thing to predict acccurately. Every auction of ancient coins includes many coins that sell for substantually more or less than the auction house suspected based on their years of experience. Every day very similar coins sell for very dissimilar prices depending on venue and chance of who shows up at the sale. This discussion has suggested several potential guides but the skill to use those guides effectively is a long shot from opening up the 2011 Red Book. Perhaps this is also the situation in US coins in that reference since it lists every cent as having left the mint worth 20 cents or more. By that standard, a fudge factor of 2000%, perhaps we could have a workable price guide for ancients if we could only find agreement on the subject of standards for grading them. A question: What is the mean time between transactions for common and popular US coins? How often is a MS 1909s VDB cent sold? Daily? Hourly? Three a second? This statistic would seem important in keeping the book value of such coins current.
PJ, I would read and reread all of Doug Smith's post since he is an experienced ancient coin collector and will give you great advice. Regarding books, if I were to start someone on Roman coins, I would get them the 1988 edition of Sears Roman Coins and their Values. He is redoing it in 5 volumes, 3 are out and the 4th is supposed to be any day, (zzzzzzzzz). The 1988 is the last edition in one book, and the prices would be useful in a relative way, meaning if ones he lists for $10 are going for $30 now, then one listed for $20 should be about $50-$60. Like Doug mentioned, their are so many ancients that it literally is impossible for an accurate price guide ever. Heck, the BMC Greek set only lists Greek coins in the British Museum, is not complete, (I have many not in there), and is 33 volumes I believe, (I own it but have never counted them I guess). The good news is that because there are so many coins, YOU can become an expert and cherry pick to your hearts content. Study a period, concentrate on an area, and soon you will discover that you are the most knowledgable person in the room and can quickly tell common from rare issues. Ancients can be collected superficially, and the Sears book will help you greatly get your feet wet, but hopefully you will choose a narrower area and really become an expert. One other word of advice. In ancient coins periodically hoards come to the market and certain coins are everywhere. Do not stop buying them since the price has gone down, buy more! Trust me, the hoard will all get sold and the prices will go back up to where they were before. The pattern repeats endlessly. Right now it seems there are a lot of Nabatean bronzes out there, I have bought many groups very cheaply. In a years time they will be 5 times the price. The same will be true of Roman coins, I just don't follow them as closely.
Thank you Doug Smith for a thoughtful summary of the "value" of ancients and of moderns, too. I had to chuckle over the comment that "... every cent that left the mint.." being worth 20 cents or more! This is a very subjective hobby, isn't it! Collectors (of anything) are a bit goofy, aren't we? Thanks for your comments too, Medoraman. I may never become a "serious" collector of ancients, but reading up on the lives of the various emperors has been fascinating and somehow they seem more real to me by their association with these little scraps of metal in my hand.
Let me be quite clear: I am not saying bad things about the Sear books (1988 single volume or current work in progress) just about the price guide part of those books or any other. Medoraman points out the example of BMC Greek which is a book set I do not have but would love. I believe the set ranges in date from 1873 to 1927 so I'm glad they did not post prices and expect me to translate Victorian Pounds Sterling into 2010 US$. Time moves slowly in the word of publishing on ancient coins. Updates rarely come often enough that prices would be meaningful. The best we can ofer is watching for sales you consider similar to what you want to buy but the bottom line is that you must pay the price of the coin that you want that is available where (and when) you are located. Sellers will try to get a premium for coins and buyers will buy only the ones they can't live without (for any of dozens of reasons) until the price drops to what they consider reasonable. You should pay what you are willing to pay and not one cent more. Just plan on owning what you buy for a long time and you will be spared having to find someone who wants the coin as much as you did.
Excellent thoughts on price guides of course. Of course someone cannot use them as any kind of absolute value, even relativity scales such as RIC get out of date as hoards are found. I think they are somewhat useful in gauging market rarity, meaning market desirability of an item versus its true scarcity. If for example Sears Byzantine lists a Carthage mint Justinian for 8 times the price of a Constantinople one, then barring some major hoards, you can be safe in assuming the Carthage piece has a much higher market rarity and be prepared to have to pay accordingly. If, however, the Syracuse mint is the same price in the book as Constantinople, then you would have to convince me why I should pay much for it. Its kind of like a baseline of knowledge to start from. This baseline is where the experts start and then annotate the guides with their own knowledge about market conditions. That is what I meant about using price guides available. Start with them, and of the bunch I like Sears the best, and then build on that knowledge yourself. Then, you can progress to RIC, BMC Roman or Greek, DO, SNG Copenhagen, SNG Von Aulock, etc. just pray that you never blow as much money on a library as I have lol. Doug, btw there is a set of BMC Greek in the electronic auctions at CNG right now, if you are interested. Also, love the photo, I use a hammer and chisel on my slabs.
Pj, Excellent reason to wish to get into ancients by the way. I don't own as many history books as coin books, but I believe I have about 400 that I love to read and learn more about the life and times when the coins were made. Sometimes I also get clues as to what the coin is referring to in my readings that also helps me enjoy them more. Also, a great many coin books on ancient coins contain a great deal on the history surrounding them. Two Roman books come to mind, both Vagi's Roman Coins two volume set, as well as Sears Coinage of the Imperators. Both are a combination of history and coinage. Vagi is also not a bad intro book for you to Romans, but tends to be above $100 while the Sear can be bought sometimes for about $50. Some of my favorite ancient coins grade no better than VG, but it is the importance of them that make them special, not absolute condition. If you love condition above all else, then ancients may not be for you since many of them left the mint no better than F or VF.
Thank you again DougSmith and Medoraman for your amplifications and explanations. "Condition above all else" is not one of my criteria, in fact (if I may utter heresy) I do not recoil in horror at a cleaned coin. A worn Mercury dime from the Depression era evokes a time when a dime was not an insignificant sum. Three of them would buy a pretty good lunch and many a working man had to put in an hour's hard work to earn ten of them. No wonder they were worn as they passed from hand to hand. I'll even confess to soaking a few of them in baking soda and water to remove some of the tarnish. Not that I would disdain owning a Mercury with Full Split Bands! I'm not that much of a heretic! Thanks again.
Its not heresy at all to me. I am glad others feel the same regarding grades. I do love some of my high grade coins, such as early Sassanid coins, I love my coins more for their historical importance. As an extreme, I would take a well worn Eid Mar over 10 high grade beautiful greek gold coins. There are many in ancient collecting who value absolute condition, but not as many as in other fields. I was just warning you that many issues, (think Byzantine), high grade is almost or completely impossible to acquire for certain issues. Good luck with the Romans and try not to get overwhelmed by the vastness of coins available to you. Like I said, it helps to choose a favorite time frame and concentrate your efforts a little, since few people on earth are experts in all Roman coins.
