Is it Live? or Is it Memorex? Trade Dollar Thread

Yes, this thread will be about my Trade Dollar, but I want to set up the questions first.

For those of the younger set, tape cassette players were my generation's MP3 players. Yes, I know, and dinosaurs once roamed the earth. Anyway, this memorable marketing campaign was trying to sell you on the idea that there was no difference to listening to music live and listening to it on Memorex tape. In fact, if the right pitch was sung, it could shatter glass (did anyone try and do this? I admit to a few yelling attempts back then) and the idea was that the recorded voice on tape could do it too. For a little history, take a look at the incomparable Ella Fitzgerald on this Memorex commercial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkt8Dwzl6Sg

So, now to my questions. Trade dollars are hard to determine whether they are real or counterfeit. Let's look at mine:





And now it is time for you judge:

- Is it real or is it fake?
- Is it VF or XF?
- Would you slab it to guarantee originality?
- If so, would you first send to NCS to remove the dirt?

 

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It looks nice and genuine to me. I'd say xf-40, and if it were mine I would eventually have it in an 'authentic' slab, but personally I like my td's unfettered where I can actually handle them. I would leave it crusty as is; it is so hard to find these undipped, unpolished, un-somethinged. Great coin, Catbert!

 

I do not know if it is genuine of not, but I do know it would be around XF

 

I would say xf-40, and real. Nice looking coin!

 

It should grade XF-40/45 but I would not waste my money sending it to a TPG to have it authenticated unless you plan on selling it. Take it to a reputable dealer and see what they say first and if it's positive, stick it in an envelope and mail it to me. Don't send it to a TPG unless there are doubts.

Ribbit

 

I'm by no means an expert on Trade Dollars...so I can say for sure if its authentic or not. But, I can tell you that I don't see any casting marks or that...and therefore doesn't jump out as an obvious fake.

But, what I do see is a "halo" affect around the stars on obverse and some other indications that the coin was cleaned at some point. Again, I don't know for sure...but I think this coin was cleaned in the past. So, I would not send it to a TPG unless its ANACS or NCS.

 

I trust the dealer I bought it from last year and he collects fakes in order to compare legitimate ones, but I wanted to see what the board thought. By the way, the halo effect you note is probably dirt. There is a lot of it on this coin along with dark toning. The issue of slabbing for me is more in case I wanted to sell, I'd already be a step ahead by getting it done. The thought behind sending it to NCS would be to remove the dirt. On the other hand, as a poster noted, perhaps the dirt might be a selling point!

 

That was what I meant. There is dirt of some kind right up against the edges of the stars but not seen in the open fields. Typically coins that have been cleaned have this because it's so hard to get it out of there.

 

Everything looks good with the coin. From what I know about the characteristics of a fake coin this one appears to be genuine to me but Im no expert either. As for grade, I'd say XF also.

 

I don't know anything about trade dollars, so I read all these threads and learn from them and enjoy them. Just wanted to comment on Memorex. Bought a whole bunch of their tapes as a kid and felt ripped off. That is, untill someone told me that Memorex is the name of an all mime band. Now I can't get enough! Thanks for the post.

 

The mintmark doesn't seem quite the right one for the 1877 year. Wasn't most of them Large S and the 1 and 8 touching? Breen's said the 1-8 free with small s was very rare.

...Although there for a minute I thought I counted 6 toes. She sure has ugly toes.

No trade dollars reference books

Jim

 

...how is that possible. Do they...like...just silently stand there on stage and you...imagine the music?

 

The coin concerns me.
Obv. The date does not line up correctly but that could be a different die than the one I am looking at. The one I am seeing here has the 1 in the date lined up right under the G in God.

Rev. The dentils look to skinny, the olive leaves look to rounded, The MM looks wrong (to Large).

I will say this. if its a fake its a good one. Do you have a weight on it?

Man these are tough.

 

Cat , like I said in a few threads , one I bought this year is so good the guy who wrote the Coin World article on Fake Trade Dollars couldn't condemn any one thing on my coin , but still thought it a fake , albiet a silver one that weighed right on , the Cinese are getting so good I'd get any TD authenticated by a tpg just to be sure , even repubatle dealers can be fooled unknowingly .
rzage

 

Does anyone know a good book on fake trade dollars that was printed in the last year or two at most , that covers all the new next generation of fakes , all the books on counterfeits I have are years ,at least 7 , years old .
rzage

 

I noted that Catbert's coin lacks a stop after "fine," this struck me as very unusual, so I decided to search the Heritage archives. I had to look at about 45 before I found this one: same mintmark, no stop. It does not have the same obv, however, but with a mintage of 9.5 million, plenty of opportunity for promiscuous pairings. I think Catbert's coin is a scarce variety.
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=68052&Lot_No=62641&src=pr

 

Rusty, to my knowledge, there are no books on counterfeit trade dollars, unless they are privately published. The worst fakes are cast, the better ones transfer die forgeries, and the best (if they have been done yet) made using EMD technology, which can reproduce detail down to hundredths of a mm accurately (million+ dollar machine and trained personnel required). ICG has already discovered fake common date MS Morgans submitted to them, detected only because the luster was wrong. Doubtless there are extremely good TD fakes too, as you have pointed out (I would really like to see some good photos of that item!).

We have seen half decent fake TD's in fake PCGS holders, when good quality fakes in fake holders show up on the bourse (and they will) this will cause a serious loss of trust in the hobby.

 

real vf 35 is my guess

 

p.s. not the 1796.