I was discussing this in another post and thought it may make an interesting post of it's own. Question: Is a dipped coin damaged or not? If you select Sometimes in the poll please post explaination... Thanks! Thanks in advance.
I believe dipping is the best way to conserve a silver coin. The point of conservation is to keep the item in it's current state. It is not considered fraud to dip silver coins. TPGs will grade most dipped coins.
I don't think it's damaged, but dipping is the same as wear to me. If it removes luster the way circulation does, it should be treated as wear to whatever degree it occurred. If it is unknoticed, it is the same as an uncirculated coin that was handled with care and remains uncirculated.
I don't agree. I believe that any wear to a coin that is unnatural is damage. Anything that happens to a coin naturally over time is wear. This is why I'm confussed by this topic: is dipping damage... I really tend to think it might be, even though experts may miss it. It's like the debate over Artificial Diamonds; if they are exactly like natural diamonds in every respect are they trully as valuble. Any thoughts on this?
In my opinion, dipping a coin sometimes damages it, and sometimes doesn't. If a coin is dipped for too long, it will be damaged. If a circulated coin is dipped, it will be damaged. If a uncirculated coin is dipped properly, it will not be damaged. JMHO, Charlie
I guarantee everyone will own a dipped coin in a PCGS or NGC holder at some time, if they collect long enough. If done properly... the removal of unwanted elements from a coin will NOT harm the original metal flow or luster... if nothing is removed from the surface of the coin, it is not damaged. Ben
I only answered "Sometimes," because I personally don't have the gut-level rejection of dipped coins that some have shown. Dipping, in the acid sense, does damage the coin because even done well it removes material from the surface of the coin. That is fact, and not subject to interpretation or argument. Cleaning, the term I'd use for any non-corrosive application of liquid to a coin, does not "damage" anything beyond the popular interpretation of what should and should not be done to a coin. There have been periods in numismatic history when cleaning was an accepted practice. Are we more enlightened now, or just more picky? I dunno - I try not to get involved in semantics. I will say that, as our hobby grows, and it will grow, cleaning and dipping will gradually lose their stigma, if only because there are a finite number of older issues to divide amongst an increasing number of collectors. There will probably always be a reduction in value due to cleaning or dipping, but I don't see any choice other than accepting such coins as collectable in the future.
I agree with your statement concerning slabbed coins having been dipped. According to Scott A. Travers, At least 90 percent of all brilliant, untoned mint state silver dollars have been dipped (Coin Collectors Survival Manual; pp:172). And according to Traver's book "The Coin Collectors Survival Manual" on pp:171, Mint made flow lines are removed from a dip. You can see this plainly in the photo examples in the book. This has to be damage. I believe if you can remove dirt and grime build up with out altering the coin in the slightest then you have an undamaged coin... if you make even the slightest alteration, then it's being damaged. To go back to the Diamond industry example I stated earlier; I think even if you accelerate something that naturally occurs in nature (like rushing the formation of a diamond) it's artificial and has little value if any. I compare this diamond example with artificial toning. An artificially toned coin is damaged in my opinion.
Toning is a complicated issue. How can anyone know whether the toning has been helped along or not. Now that "artificially toned" coins are so rampant, the question seems to be "Is this toning market acceptable?" If it is, then a TPG will likely holder it. If the toning is "natural" but not "market acceptable" it will likely be "body-bagged." Charlie
My 2 sen says: Quick dip, first time = no damage. Lengthy dip, anytime = damage. Second or subsequent dip = damage.
I think if you can differentiate an Artificially toned coin from a naturally toned coin, then let the TPG companies slab the naturals and toss the artificial. I agree with you... Toning is a complicated issue. Naturally toned coins are some of the most beautiful coins, and I've read in other posts in this forum and others from collector's of toned material, that there is a natural progression to the color of toned coins. There are ways to tell artificially toned coins... I think it comes from lots of experience... maybe creating alot of toned coins will help a person more easily detect one.
Another point... if you have a coin that has PVC damage, then I guess you MUST dip it to save the coin. Eventually it will deteriorate, and the coin will be lost to future generations. In this case you have to dip.
The term "dipping" is generally used to refer to the use of a metal polishing chemical, which is not at all the same as acetone rinsing. Dipping compounds are weak acids, and affect the coin metal, removing one or more molecular layers. When the top layer is silver nitrate (tarnish aka "toning"), the coin becomes white. Acetone has no effect on gold or silver. (There is considerable controversey over whether it affects copper/bronze/brass.) It is an organic solvent which attacks pvc residue, the oils present in fingerprints, etc. An acetone rinsed coin is exactly the same metal disk after the rinse that it was before. No metal removal = no damage.
Not much really mentioned as to the dipping solution. If fast dipped in something like Acetone, very difficult to detect. Other dipping agents can cause anywhere from mild to massive damage. For instance I've dipped copper coins in battery acid over night and caused great damage. I've soaked coins in dishwater soaps for weeks and very little damage except discolorizations on the coins. Weak baking soda and distilled water causes little noticable accounting of anything. Again, everyting depends on what the dipping solution is and duration of dipping.
