investing versus collecting: the final word

those of you who said coin buying is collecting, not investing: you win the debate. Im tired of arguing if its investing. If I said investing, Im going to contradict myself. The greysheet prices are what the dealers buy and sell for, at shows. I dont know if the greysheets are used by retail dealers who dont do shows. The guys on ebay start the stuff at fair prices. Then the idiots bid it up. Im the idiot who bought raw coins in 2005. Good dates, but some over-graded stuff. I took a break in 2006. I bought slabbed stuff by ngc and pcgs in 2007. I bought better stuff in 2007. I still took some losses cause ebay, as good as the price looks, the odds are the greysheet price is lower. Coins are collecting. Buy at the show at greysheet price, or read the greysheet before you bid on ebay. I had some overdrafts at the bank this month. I dumped my 7 morgans for $300. Im glad to have the $300. coins are a liquid item, but Im not going to go forward with an attitude that its a piggy bank. Cause later on I might not have a local coin shop guy nearby who is trustworthy and has ready cash.

 

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Hogwash. If everyone here who tells you to only buy what you like knew that their favorite coins would only depreciate in value, they would stop buying. I don't care how much you like the coin. If you pay $20 for the uncirculated Silver Eagle that you love this year, and were sure that it's value would only go down over time, you wouldn't buy it. The beauty of coin collecting is that it is a balancing act between the two. Ideally you can buy what you like, and make money.

 

I buy Silver Eagles from the mint without even looking at the price. I could care less. I buy them like I buy a poster or a comic book off the shelf. They are pretty, I like to share them and show them off, and they are cheap enough for me to buy.

I could care less if their value goes up or down.

Ruben

 

If you woke up tomorrow, and they cost $50 a piece with silver at it's current price, would your attitude be the same. Then if you did still buy, and a week later if they were only worth $1, would you still have the same attitude? Noone wants to take a loss, it's human nature. It's easy to sit back and joke about it when you know it won't happen.

 

Yeah your not listening. When I wake up tomorrow I'll have no idea that they went up or down because I don't care. I just like proof silver eagles. If I happen to read here that they go down to a dollar, I might buy more. Good luck with that though, silver prices generally don't collapse. If the reverse silver proof from last year goes down to a buck, please email me so I can finally afford a few.

Ruben

 

What then if the prices go through the roof? If we suddenly find that there is no more silver, and it rises to platinum prices, do you continue to buy, because you REALLY like the coin?

 

Yeah, your still not listening. I can't afford platnimum so I guess I'd by less of them.

Ruben

 

LOL, that's when you SELL the silver eagles and BUY platinum. LOL

 

Or maybe not. I haven't seen any platinum coins but from I have seen I don't think its a good material for coins while silver is almost perfect for coins in the asthetic sense.

I'm not that found of gold either for coins.

Ruben

 

I buy what I like and on the whole I am ahead of the game, collector/investor may be a false distinction.

 

I think low mintage US coins are an investment and high mintage coins are for collecting. That is a generalization but I think it makes some sense anyways.

The one mistake in coins is not to confuse the age of a coin with how valuable it is. They sell 2000 year old foreign coins for $20 and new mint releases can sell for many times that so it is all about condition and rarity as they say.

 

Simple Definition

The difference between the two?

Well, in the future, the bottom is going to fall out of the coin market and it'll probably last for awhile.

The Collectors will still be visiting and posting to the one or two coin forums that may survive on the Internet after the fallout.

The Investors will have sold most of what they own and will have reinvested in the latest, greatest, hotest items. And there will be a zillion forums to talk about these items.

Don't believe it? Try finding a few real active forums on 45 RPM Records, Pokemon Cards, Franklin Mint items, Beanie Babies or Postage Stamps.

Oh and I got some hot deals on 1991 Upper Deck Baseball cards - Cheap!!!!!

 

I agree with what is said. High mintage coins are generally produce to let many people collect them. They may be created with an attractive design. It caters to different groups of collectors. I term them as casual collectors. They see what they like and they buy. Generally, they are not so much bothered with the price since they are prices at an afforable range. Nothing against these group of collectors. Different people have different way of getting the most out of their collecting hobby.

The low mintage coins are produced for specialized or serious collectors. They are usually sold at higher prices. As the coins produced in small quantity, it's objective is to increase the rarity of these coins. Over the years, the prices of these coins increased. Apart from rarity, there are many other factors affecting the price. There may be something special about the coins. Sometimes, it may be due to an error in design or misprint during the production ( quite unlikely for modern coins ).Or it could be the first or last coins produced for something etc. It also depend greatly on the type of collecton popularity. If many collectors love to collect commemorative or even some festival, the coins will be in great demand.

Interestingly, there are rare coins in international auction, if you are a serious buyer and have a full knowledge of these rare coins, it is possible that you may win the coins at a bargain. Here is an example. A set of rare coins ( only two known sets ) was sold at 600 pounds. A few years later, the same set of coins was sold by the auction winner at 120,000 pounds. Knowledge, right location, right timing, right environment are important factors when you purchased a coin or a banknote. Whether it is for your collection or for investment, one would always wonder after keeping for 20 years, what will be the current market value. It is true that a rare coin or banknotes does not have a market value or pricing. Market value or pricing depends greatly on similiar coins or banknotes being transaction earlier. These prices may be used as a guide to future pricing.

I stopped collecting coins many years ago, but I still continue with banknotes which I specializes on world solid numbers banknotes as my lifelong collection.

 

I would say just the opposite. I guess that is what makes the discussion interesting. I would say that more often than not, at least with silver and gold coins, high mintage coins are for investing, since they frequently can be purchased for close to and sometimes less than bullion value. Low mintage coins are for collecting and generally command large numismatic premiums which, by definition, makes them more speculative since it is necessary to find someone willing to pay an even greater premium in order to make money. But this is just a generalization, and each coin must be judged on its individual merits and demerits.

 

Sure, because I want them. If I can afford them I'd still buy them. I may not buy as many but that would be because I don't have the money to do so, not because of the price premium.

Sure, because I'm not selling so I haven't actually lost anything. And since I like tham and they are now this cheap, I'd probably buy more.

No, because I can't afford the coin. If I can't afford a coin I don't buy it, it don't matter how much I like it.

Ok, so you weren't collecting, and you weren't investing you were apparently speculating. You apparently bought coins with no experience and little knowledge and tried to flip them. Surprise, theat very seldom works unless you just happen to get lucky enough to be able to get in on the start of a hot fad. In that case timing is everything. If your timing is right you win big. If it is wrong you lose.

 

So what do we call this, Round 2? Unbelievable.

Look, I think the only point some of us "old timers" are trying to make is, don't think you're necessarily going to come out ahead in the long-run, however meticulous, informed, and sophisticated your buying choices may indeed be. If the market doesn't get you, inflation most certainly will. Grab yourself some sense, we're saying, participate in the activity for the enjoyment of it, you may win, in the short-run, depending on market fluctuations, etc., but coins isn't where you want to be in terms of any long-term ROI. Do you want to "win" in this game? Be an auction house or brokerage firm. They're not in this to "invest." They're in this to promote the activity and take the rake-off from your "investing." But don't sit there and suggest to me that your greysheets are any different than the racetrack's scratch sheets. And don't sit there and tell me that if you're "smart" you can beat this game, in the long-run. You're only deceiving yourself, and are in for a rude awakening, someday, if you seriously think that. IMHO, and FWIW...

 

THE GREYSHEET CANNOT BE COMPARED TO THE RACE-TRACK SCRATCHSHEET. greysheet is a realistic guide to what current market buy and sell prices are. A racetrack scratchsheet trys to predict the future. And any dealer who trys to justify his top-dollar retail prices, by telling me greysheet is dealer-to-dealer pricing, is a BOZO!! Because At the shows, and at many shops, many dealers use the greysheet for deals with individuals from off-the-street. somebody said Im bitter I didnt get what I thought I would get: maybe. And could it be, some people attack greysheet, because they are buying coins at high retail, and not buying near greysheet prices, so THEY are bitter? maybe.

 

They can sell a 2000 year old domestic (US) coin for MUCH more.

Ruben