I'll bet you didn't know this...

I sure didn't...

Sold a 1916 Cuba 20 Centavos to a fellow CT member. Keep in mind that this coin is pre-Castro by a good 40 years. Minted in PHILADELPHIA.

Got an email from PayPal tonight. Here's what it said:

Dear xx,
>
>
> As part of our security measures, we regularly screen activity in the
> PayPal system.
>
> PayPal is committed to complying with and meeting its global regulatory
> obligations. One obligation is to ensure that our customers, merchants, and
> partners are also in compliance with applicable laws and regulations,
> including those set forth by OFAC, in their use of PayPal.
>
> PayPal's Compliance Department has reviewed your account and identified
> activity that is in violation of United States regulations administered by
> the Department of the Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).
> Please consult the following website for further information regarding OFAC
> regulations:
> http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Pages/default.aspx
>
> OFAC rules currently prohibit the purchase or sale of various goods and
> services originated from the following countries:
>
> • Cuba
> • North Korea
> • Iran
> • Sudan
> • Syria (unlicensed items)
> • Burma (gems such as rubies, jade, jadeite)
>
> In addition, OFAC also prohibits the purchase or sale of goods and services
> by those individuals designated as Specially Designated Nationals (SDNs).
>
> It has come to our attention that you're advertising PayPal as a method of
> payment for the sale of goods and services originating from one or more of
> the countries listed above. To ensure that activity and transactions comply
> with current regulations, PayPal is requesting that you complete the
> following:
>
> 1. Remove PayPal as a payment option; or
> 2. Segregate your checkout to disallow PayPal as a method of payment
> for any goods or services originating from these countries; or
> 3. Remove all goods or services originating from these countries from
> your website.
>
> When this is complete, please email us at compliancetransactions@paypal.com.
>
> To ensure that future activity and transactions comply with current
> regulations, PayPal is requesting that you complete the following appeal
> step:
>
> • Agree to no longer undertake activities in violation of laws,
> regulations and rules as outlined in PayPal's User Agreement.
>
> Please log in to your account and go to the Resolution Center to find out
> what you need to do. If we don't hear from you by September 24, 2014, we
> will limit what you can do with your account until the issue is resolved.
>
> Any further violations will result in the closure of your account. As a
> result of the violation, details of your account and the transaction have
> been reported to OFAC.
>
> We thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. We apologize for any
> inconvenience.
>
> Sincerely,
> Angela
> PayPal Compliance Department
>
> © 2014 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First
> St., San Jose, CA 95131.

The only problem with this is that IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO SELL PRE-CASTRO CUBAN COINS. I'll refer you to this CoinWorld article from June 2013 that states,

"The Embargo Act and OFAC guidelines ban importing into the United States Cuban coins, currency and stamps issued from 1962 onward; pieces issued prior to 1962 may be freely traded. The eBay ban, however, goes further than the Embargo Act and OFAC guidelines, by prohibiting the sale of items issued before 1962, according to Putrow."

Here is the link to the OFAC website's list of sanctions on Cuban items:


What makes this even MORE fun is that WHILE I was reading the email from PayPal, someone bought my 3-coin set of 1, 2, and 10 Rials from IRAN. Which has been on eBay for two months. (FYI - there are hundreds of coins/currency from Iran currently on eBay.)

So maybe this is my final day of eBay/PayPal? I have called PayPal already (of course, their compliance department isn't there during off hours) and they promised to call me back tomorrow.

Anyone else think this is a bit on the ridiculous side?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

you didn't know its was against the law, Jim Motley had the FBI pay him a visit for selling a cuban coin on ebay

 

Ben,
I was aware of these rules about selling these types of coins....I have even heard of stories such as yours....but this is the first time actually seeing proof that they do this. It is crazy. I remember that article in Coin World. This is the world we live in these days. No turning back.

 

On second thought, I'll keep the comment I was about to share to myself, as it could be construed as political in nature. But that article was a good read - it will sure help tomorrow when I speak with PayPal.

A snippet of my conversation with Unhelpful PayPal Rep tonight:

"Are you aware of what a trade embargo is?"

"Yes, I am a veteran of the US Navy. I used to help enforce the trade embargoes against Iraq."

"Oh."

 

That's the thing: it's not illegal in any way. Pre-1962, okay with the US government.

 

FWIW, eBay (Paypal) is a corporation trying to protect shareholders. They're simply asking that you use a different processor for transactions that they don't want to be a part of. It's not like they froze your account for selling the coins... unless they froze your account for selling the coins.

 

They have actually restricted my account.

 

FWIW - I hope no one ever sends you money and uses your CT screen name! Same thing will happen to you...

"He named names!" - Seinfeld

 

I knew that eBay and Paypal banned these coins but I've never seen an email like this. I think you are ok as long as you don't use the word "Cuba" or whatever in your listing. Of course now that they're on to you, you probably can't get away with it. EBay listings regarding Iran say that you can sell them if you only ship within the U.S.

I agree that it's totally wrong that they won't allow you to sell these pre-embargo items, but eBay and Paypal are just issuing a blank prohibition because it's easier than looking at each individual item.

 

Right/wrong aside - anyone else think this was a bit harsh for a first-time offense for someone who wasn't breaking any laws? Plus - I didn't even sell the Cuban coin on eBay...

When someone tells you that they are reporting you to the Feds, restricts your account, and threatens to close your account if "it" happens again...yeesh.

 

The United States can be very immature when it comes to antiquated policies and its enforcement of them. The same can be said for businesses that are based in the country. Other antiquated policies and attitudes that need changing include drugs and the censoring of nudity/profanity on basic TV. I went to London last year and Cuban rum is sold in liquor stores all around.

I find it abhorrent how ebay tries to regulate the sale of items from Cuba from European sellers. It's time for the United States and businesses based in the country to get with the 21st century. Until policies towards Cuba are modernized, sellers of perfectly legitimate sales of pre-1962 coins will likely continue to be harassed and pushed into submission from these companies.

 

Interesting thought:

I've been reading the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy, along with all their other policy pages...and there is NO specific mention of Cuba. Only a mention about complying with federal policies. So...this will be an interesting phone conversation tomorrow.

 

This is quite interesting. I made a thread about the legality of collecting cuban coins and currency a few days ago. Anything pre castro is fair game. PayPal is stupid if they want to comply with the law the first step in that process is to know what the law actually is.

 

can someone spell out FWIW for me please?

 

For What It's Worth

 

A quick 20 second search reveals that it means "for what it's worth"

edit: Ed beat me to it with less extra comment

 

I'd send Jim Motley, or Jim M. an email, and find out what the FBI told him

 

Yes, that does seem like overkill. I had a similar incident. I was selling a Roman provincial from Rhesaena, and the listing included the word Mesopotamia, which eBay equated to Iran. I got a call, telling me they were going to pull the auction. I said, "Fine, no big deal, but just so you know, ancient Rhesaena is modern Ra's-al-'Ayn, in Syria - and has nothing to do with modern day Iran." They pulled it anyway.

But that was all - no frozen account and threats and so on. This is eBay's version of "looking busy."

 

I suspect the outcome will be this:

While the PayPal reps may listen to and agree with your facts, they will maintain a blanket policy of prohibiting items on their existing list in order to prevent extra work on their part. Just because it is legal for you to sell pre-Castro coins doesn't mean they are obligated to change their policy.

What a hassle!

 

I sold some Cuban coins on Ebay. You just have to leave the word "Cuba" out of the listing.