If you want to learn about how silver tones naturally then take a peek inside

It's no secret that my collecting focus lies squarely in the realm of all things toned...the more colorful and eye appealing the better. In have been a staunch defender of naturally toned coins for many years and I feel these coins get a bad wrap across the internet simply due to a lack of knowledge/education. I guess I shouldn't expect any less as those with no interest in toned coins aren't going to spend time educating themselves on the good, the bad and the ugly anymore than I would spend time learning about Modern proofs. They just don't appeal to me so I focus my learning and collecting chops on areas that I find interesting and I should expect no less from others right? aaaahhhhhhh but here's the rub.....I don't know anything about modern proofs so I don't spend my time in coin forums spreading rumors and mistruths or better yet bashing and labeling collectors as stupid for wasting their money buying high mintage modern coins...but hey that's just me


So I am not going to present myself as a collector with a master degree in metallurgy, I haven't been collecting since 1910, I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn express last night......I am a simple collector who has honed my skills of detecting AT vs. NT coins but immersing myself in toned coins over the past 5+ years, learning about toning agents, historical storage methods and oh ya I have looked at thousands upon thousands of toned coins both raw and certified. I have a pretty good grasp of what's legit and what isn't but conveying those thoughts into a definition for others is frankly quite a challenge for a lot of us becuase the simple answer is ...we just know what we are looking at becuase we have seen so much of it and we understand the types of storage methods that produce certain types of toning patterns and we understand color progression in toning. A very easy thing for me to say but it really doesn't help those collectors who are uninitiated in all things toned now does it?

What this thread is about is challenging what you think you know about toning on silver and keeping an open mind when it comes to colorful toning, not becuase you have to collect it but becuase it's a part of a hobby you love and it's here to stay....just like Modern proofs

I recently drove up to Atlanta to assist my dad with clearing out a storage unit that had possessions of my late mother and also my dads parents. It was a difficult but necessary step that one must go through as part of the healing process. Others have gone through it and they know of what I speak but in a twist of fate if you will...I got a bit more than a bargained for....

Among the last of the boxes we removed from the storage shed I found some old pictures of my dad when he was a kid and my Grandparents when they were my age...certainly a wonderful find as I had never seen any of these pictures before. In the same box I found 3 silver spoons and a silver candle snuffer that my father did not know my grandparents had. All were heavily toned from decades upon decades of time spent in this box and I can only surmise that they most likely had not seen the light of day for at least 20+ years due to the time that had passed since their passing. Although heavily toned...the toning is 100% natural...it's what happens to Silverware etc that is not cleaned and polished...but rather left alone exposed to the elements.

Here is where the learning comes in for most of us including myself....some of the colors on these pieces is exactly the type of colors and color sequences that folks on these and other forums swear is AT....wild rainbow circus colors that just aren't natural according to them. Please look at the following photos, try to keep an open mind, accept at face value that I speak the truth when I said these pieces of silver have in no way been exposed to heat and chemicals as a means to tone them...they are what they are and I think there is a lot to be learned simply by taking in all of the elements visable in the images. Ultimately each of us can choose to believe what we want to believe but if after viewing these silver pieces you still believe that rainbow crazy color toning is not and can not be natural on coins...well then me, Santa, and the tooth fairy will come knocking at your door by Christmas

































































Thanks for looking oh and I was born in 1972 so the date on the candle snuffer is pretty sweet

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Pretty cool!

 

Well, I really don't see the "wild circus colors" that you speak of, I do see a great deal of natural silver toning on a previously polished piece. The crude shapes of silver wear are stamped out of rolled metal, re-shaped, engraved, then polished to a brilliant shine. Our coinage is manufactured differently but oxidizes in the same manner, so I would expect to see some similarities in toning and I do.

The accelerated Artificially Toned coins that I see being hawked as Natural Toning, would look way different on those spoons if the same process were used to enhance them, you could just tell.

Seen many a lightly toned coin in my day, where these heavily toned coins came from in the past 5 years really intrigues me. I can't explain it.

Happy Collecting

 

In the 6th pictures which shows the back of a spoon you will notice on the handle that there is hot pink mixed with green and orange....those are some of the wild colors that have been labeled as AT in the past.

One other thing to note:


Just so we are clear before this thread goes off track like across the street....everyone can see these pieces are deeply toned which attests to the fact that they have not been cleaned over the past 20+ years like I stated. There is no way that I can state that they have never been cleaned or polished 20+ years ago...I simply contend that regardless of any possible cleaning in the past that these pieces are NT nothing more and nothing less.

 

Neat candle snuffer!

Sorry about the passing of your mother.

 

This is a cool thread and I applaud your efforts Shane. Educating others about toning and other misunderstood areas of numismatics is a noble undertaking. I remember when I first joined this forum 2 years ago, the general sentiment about rainbow toning was decidedly negative. Now it seems that toning is a constant topic of discussion and learning on this site. Our efforts are having an effect. Keep up the good work my TCCS brother.

 

I don't believe all of these pieces have been harshly cleaned as I don't see any real polish marks on the candle snuffer but I understand what your saying. My contention is that if silver is left alone to tone naturally that wild rainbow colors can and does occur. I believe this thread attests to that in part but short of going to the silver smith and buying a virgin piece and putting it away for another 20 years I can provide the perfect test and control subject piece. It really comes down to coins or silver that have been cleaned still developing NT toning with these colors so if you feel the pieces are NT then there is still some value to be gained in viewing the pics. If you feel the pieces are somehow AT now due to the potential that they were all cleaned 20 years ago then of course this thread as little if any value.

 

Shane, I do agree with your point. There are a great deal of people who are extremely quick to point out artificial toning. I for one love toning, and buy tones coins from time to time, without paying extreme premiums for those rainbows. I just can't see spending 40% more for a coin with the same grade, unless it's a spectacular display, or it is slabbed.

 

When I mentioned "wild circus colors" I was inferring something as seen in this sellers e-bay auctions...close to 500 AT coins, some just released from the mint (2010) and they are already completely toned!

http://shop.ebay.com/chicky55/m.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4611&rt=nc&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14.l1513&_pgn=1

 

Shane, you have placed questions in my mind that I am not sure if you can answer (or maybe if it already has been answered but to lazy atm to look up). Will silver (heck maybe clad too) tone faster in direct sunlight vs darkness (or vice versa) and which I am pretty sure this plays a part, I would imagine that what you have the item in makes a big difference due to the chemicals that are used to make the storage item (i.e cardboard, velet, 2x2 etcc). how about temperature and or humidty?

I apprecaite you taking the time to write this post..very cool!

 

ok just for edited and giggles, I want to go back to my grade school days and do a science project along the lines of "What is the time frame for a 2 coins to tone in two extreme temperatures (in this scenario maybe outside since it's 25 degrees out and 68 degrees inside) Maybe this can be something I can give results and post to the forum once completed...Unless this has been already done.

 

After reviewing the posts on this topic on a few forums, and thinking a bit about things...

I think the toning on this silverware should best be compared to secondary toning on coins (or toning on circulated coins).

The thought being that these pieces have been "harshly cleaned" in the numismatic sense, best evidenced by the circular hairlines visible in the following photo:



That's not to diminish the underlying point that Shane was making, but we should be careful from ascribing this type of toning to coins except in similar circumstances (i.e. secondary or circulated toners).

Look familiar?

 

Sterling silver flatware, .900, .800, and silver plated all tone a little different than coins do.

 

From one of the auction descriptions:

WHAT CAN WE SAY?
THIS COIN IS SIMPLY GORGEOUS!
"A TRUE WORK OF ART"​

LOL -- at least we can't accuse them of lying in the description!

Having said that, though, I've come across a couple of strikingly toned late-90's examples in rolls of pennies recently. I'm thinking that, in the right circumstances, unintentional toning (dodging the "natural" vs. "artificial" quagmire) can actually happen very quickly.

 

O M G! I have to agree with Leadfoot. I would also consider the times the spoon etc... got oils from hands or what not. I think Leadfoot's example is a good example.

I do agree though that wild colors do come and about on coins naturally as long as they don't look like the "seller shown" by the other members....LOL

Unfortunately, PCGS's law suit was thrown out (from what I heard) and these coin doctors are out and looking to scam again. Freaking people need to be done Kennedy style for destroying the hobby! :veryangry: