Identification Torture: Campgates

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gavin Richardson, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    So apparently there’s a breed of ancients collector out there who enjoys counting blocks and rows and dots in the process of identifying the seemingly infinite varieties of campgates out there. I am not one of those collectors. In fact, I’m overhauling my Constantine cataloging and have left campgates and “Gloria Exercitus” types for last.

    In short, is there any hope for a conclusive ID (i.e., RIC #) for this campgate? And how to describe this bust type? Is it simply diademed, or does the square bit over his eye make it “rosette,” or are rosettes always circular, or circular shapes within a square?

    CON 1 CAMPGATE 3 SMAN GUESS.jpg

    Here are some details on this coin.

    CONSTAN-TINVS AVG; diademed (?) head right;
    PROVIDEN-TIAE AVGG; campgate with 2 turrets, 11 layers, star above, dot in doorway.
    FWIW: 18.19 mm.; 2.81 g.; 180°

    My Spidey-sense is telling me it’s Antioch; it looks about right for the type, and there’s enough of the exergue there to see, or imagine seeing, an SMAN… (Though that first letter sort of looks like a high delta.)

    I don’t have RIC to hand, but I’m not sure that would help since I get turned around in RIC even on the easy ID's. Dane’s campgate spreadsheets just make me dizzy, and Wildwinds examples don’t give me the precise combination of details to make an ID.

    I suppose I’m fundamentally lazy and want a campgate specialist to say, “Oh, of course, that’s a RIC VII Antioch 81!”
     
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  3. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Yes, It is RIC VII Antioch 81.
     
  4. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Well, here's to spidey sense and experts. Victor, how would you describe the bust type? I looked at your bust type descriptions on your site, but my coin looks like it has a laureate crown, yet that single square over the eye throws me.
     
  5. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Antioch has a peculiar way of engraving "rosettes" that are actually square.

    This coin is laureate-- Antioch 71

    ProvidentiaeAnt71.JPG

    here's an Antioch 78 with squares

    Providentiae Antioch 78.JPG

    here's a more proper rosette on Antioch 84

    Antioch84a.JPG



    edit: I have oversimplified the differences in the diadems...there may have actually been completely different diadem types (square with laurels, round with laurels etc.) Some mints have diadems with nothing but squares- ladder like. Sometimes laurel looks like pearl diadems. The biggest point is to distinguish the basic type- laurel or diadem. I don't worry so much about what type of diadem, just the fact that it is diademed. There are some very confusing issues with a lot of variations in the diadem, like the DAFNE series.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2017
  6. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    That's very helpful. Thanks.
     
  7. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    (edited) oops, you already know about Dane's pages.
     
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