ICG stack up with NGC PCGS

I know this has probably been beat to death, but how do ICG coins do if crossing them over to NGC or PCGS? Are their grades accurate and can you expect the same grade when sending them to the other guys? Also should they be cracked out of the ICG holder or do you send it in and they crack it out? Never done it just curious.

 

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First, I'm not one to crack out coins from one service only to pay to have them graded by another service. The upgrade would have to be a no-brainer, and it would have to mean a substantial increase in value.

I haven't owned too many ICG slabs, but I try to pay what I think the coin is worth.

Chris

 

I crossed a barber half icg au55 to pcgs au53.

 

I also cracked out a pcgs au58 peace dollar and pcgs regraded it an au55.

 

The ICG coins I have don't stand a chance of crossing even to ANACS. The later ones I have are 3 - 4 grades over graded. Now these are almost all 40's/50's high grade (at least per ICG) wheats. I have been told there was a time they graded properly or nearly so.

 

I crossed a bust half from ICG XF40 to PCGS XF45. It also CAC'D later on.

 

Unless you are lucky, know very well what you are doing or a combination of both; be prepared for pain.

 

Generally speaking (of course) if ICG regularly and consistently crossed at grade, do you really think their coins would (also fairly regularly) sell at a discount? Yes, there will always be examples of where one did cross (or grade upon resubmission) at or higher, but is it wise to "expect" it? No...

 

I'd buy an ICG coin only if I see it in hand and know the series . There's a reason as others have stated why they are considered a 3rd rate tpg .

 

In my opinion:

PCGS>NGC>ANACS>ICG

 

On peace dollars my experience is that they are a grade low. However I have seen some very nice coins in their holders.

 

While they are a credible TPG, in general, they don't stack up to the others. Of course, as with any grading service, you'll find really nice coins in their holders if you look.

They also have what I think are the worst holders. They easily get heavily scuffed, the tag is the least legible of the mainstream TPGs, and the "sticker area" on the reverse is shaped funny (makes it hard to center my VAMSeal tags).

 

If you know what you are doing, you can cherry pick. Some coins are significantly overgraded, others aren't as bad. Here are a couple of examples that I cherry picked in the last year or so that come to mind. They crossed to PCGS in the grades I expected, even if not at grade.

ICG MS67 Type III Gold Dollar --> PCGS MS66 Gold Dollar (and CACed to boot)
ICG MS66 Peace Dollar --> MS65+
ICG MS66 Peace Dollar --> MS66

 

they are however the only TPG that will slab - for protection - counterfeit coins.

for those of us who have them - perhaps as an adjunct to a collection - that's a valuable service.

 

Yes, you should crack it out of the holder to avoid downgrading for competitive bias. Just look at all the answers, here. Why do you think everybody thinks PCGS and NGC are better than ICG? Whoever tells you that is already biased by the marketing. Just look at how every one of the answers to this point neglected this question you asked. That didn't happen by accident. The truth is any one of these established graders get as many "right" and "wrong" as the next one. ICG just doesn't have the market these two have because they don't have the marketing, translated, the money to blow on registries, forums, price guides, sponsorships, keep thinking, you'll get the picture. In my humble opinion...

 

Oh, please. How much money does it take to set up a registry, forum, and price guide? One single software developer could easily set up the web infrastructure for those things in a reasonable time. Populating a price guide with data would probably take longer, but I bet the whole thing could be done in less than a year.

Even so, that's not the reason ICG coins are less liquid than other top TPG coins. It's because they tend to grade too high. I have ICG coins in my collection, because I think the coins were offered at a price reflecting the quality of the coin. But, I'll never put a coin into ICG plastic unless something drastic happens in the TPG industry.

 

I would have to disagree with you strongly. Your statement in bold smacks as the largest bucket of bias in this thread since you readily lump all people with all levels of knowledge and all degrees of experience into one mass. I'm not just a coin dealer, but also a PhD scientist. I earned my PhD through not just hard work and dedication, but also through observation, analytical thinking and a willingness to change my working theory based upon results. It is with this experience and vision that I look at coins and that I use to help novice members of this board.

ICG grades according to the proprietary standards of ICG just as PCGS grades according to the proprietary standards of PCGS and NGC grades according to the proprietary standards of NGC. Further, CAC stickers coins according to the proprietary standards of CAC. None of these sets of standards needs to be in agreement with the ANA published guidelines and, in fact, I believe they all differ from the ANA published guidelines in one area or another. The best thing for someone to realize is that while there is significant overlap among each paradigm, that there are also critical areas of difference and while the larger market has recognized these differences on a broad basis, it is up to the individual to identify these differences on a coin-by-coin basis and that is simply not something a less experienced grader is ready to do.

Therefore, even if ICG were to grade within a 100% accuracy rate for their proprietary standards, it would not mean that the same coin would receive the same grade at PCGS, NGC or anywhere else (might grade higher, might grade lower) and would not mean that such a coin would retain the same liquidity or value if it were graded by a different entity. That is an observation of the real-world market at work

 

OK we're where these discussions always go to: MY TPG is better than YOUR TPG...

I should know better

Bye

 

I have only one experience with crossing from ICG to PCGS which was a 1934-D Peace Dollar. It crossed from MS64 to MS64 and this was so early in my slab collecting career that I had no idea what I was doing! The Dealer I'd bought it from felt confident that it was in fact an MS64 coin. Rocky Mountain Coin in Denver Colorado was a real pleasure doing business with as Klaus was vey informed and guaranteed his sales.

I recall buying a raw 1928-S for MS63 money from him which PCGS returned as an MS60? I returned the coin to him and he gave me full credit toward he purchase of another coin.

Now, with other coins that I do know something about, I use my best judgment. I once purchased an NGC MS65 1978-D IKE Dollar and submitted it for crossover. It came back and MS64. I cracked it out and resubmitted and it came back an MS65. I had no idea what either they or I were thinking.

 

I am not sure about ICG because it all depends on the coin. I had several ICG slab Mercury Dime and the grade were much better than the other high end slab. The dime were was really nice than PCGS or NGC . The only problem is that ICG holder is really ugly.