ICG on Imdian Head Cents

I have my eye on a 1866 Indian Head in an ICG holder graded MS66 RB. How good is ICG on these cents comparing to PCGS or NGC when they cross over? Should I base my offer on say a 64 or 65 price?

 

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Base your offer on the coin. If you don't know how to tell the difference between 64, 65, and 66, go learn that first. I don't mean that in a mean or condescending way; you will save yourself a lot of money and frustration in this hobby learning these things early on.

 

Yes that goes without saying. Just asking about experiences with the company.

 

I only own one ICG coin. It is a properly graded MS66 1982 "No P" dime.

 

Some coins are graded accurately while a vast majority are over grades. That takes you back to evaluating said coin yourself. Buy the coin, not the grade.

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There is no one answer. Some will cross many will not. Individual coins will be the determination. If you want to play percentages you have to buy them in bulk

 

I would look at how old the slab is and if the coin is still RB. Next is luster. PCGS want's it really nice to give it a 66.

 

If I remember correctly the 9 digit serial number are among the most accurately graded.

 

No, you are confusing old green label PCI with ICG.

 

10 digit on PCI. I don't know on ICG.

 

Every couple weeks, somebody posts the same question on ICG. Personally, I suspect it's because the search function won't let you search for a three letter word.

Usually the underlying question is "I paid PCGS money for a coin marked MS6x, did I pay too much". If that's the question, yeah you paid too much.


The Greysheet (a dealer pricing guide) lists several older and 2nd tier slabbing companies in their price guide, for some common dates, common grades, at a hefty discount. The greysheet is the price seen market - that is a dealer has looked at the plastic and generally agrees. The Bluesheet is the price unseen market and that is only made in PCGS and NCG coins.


ICG is generally thought of as the 4th place of the 4 grading companies that eBay allows sellers to list numeric grades from. In order of market premium they are PCGS, NGC, ANACS and finally ICG. SEGS seems to meet the published criteria of eBay (searchable registration validation and a population report), but has not been accepted into the club.


With ALL of the TPGs, the grading standards have changed over the years. How badly and how blatantly is a matter of opinion. Originally all were ANA-compliant technical grading, they've all come to market grading at different times. One dealer - an expert in the particular series and author of the primary guide to that series- has even documented this in an article he wrote about gradeflation of a specific rare key date.

If standards are looser, the converse is that last decades MS62 is today's MS63 or MS64.

This leads to the myth that "XYZ slabs of some vintage" are undergraded and will upgrade. In fact, most of the older slabs have been looked over several times and the obvious upgrades already cherry picked. The high end 62s are in 64 plastic and the low end 62s are still 62s. Maybe high end 62s now, but still 62.


In order to roughly date the slab, the characteristics that have changed over time are looked for. The specific shell, the label style, etc. This is why you will see "OGH" (Old Green Holder) or "Rattler" or "Fatty" in listings.

 

Since you are thinking of buying on eBay, do an eBay search for the same coin slabbed by ICG and see what others have paid for it. After all, what the market will bear is the current value of the coin. If there are no ICG coins in the sold search, look under ANACS or SEGS, etc., to see the sold prices. In the end, if you like the coin, then that should be your driver: always buy the coin not the holder.

 

Thank you

 

I only own one. A nice MS-63 Walker. It's a great coin I got for cheap cause no one wanted it due to the holder. It's nicer than my NGC graded one (also a 63).

 

ICG has little to no recognition in the wholesale marketplace.

 

It would help to see the coin. Rectangular holograms were graded by a different group of graders than the square (more recent) slabs. I've been told the TPGS can look up who graded a specific coin and the original submitter by the coin number of the slab. I don't think they give out that information.

Look up a price for an MS-64 and try to get as close to it as possible. With all the trash talk I see bout ANACS and ICG there are som great deals out there. Also, if the seller has sold a lot of coins on Ebay from any service except NGC or PCGS I should look at the coin more critically.

 

ICG grades are just as good as NGC and PCGS grades for crossover purposes. All three will vary if at all by 1 point in 99.99% of the cases. In fact, I think the percentage may even be higher than that.

 

And NEVER send an ICG or ANACS slab into PCGS or NGC for crossover. You'll have a better chance when the coin's raw. On the other hand, ANACS an ICG do not discriminate.

 

Not true. The PCGS/NCG grade will often differ more than 1 point from ICG's given grade. Usually lower.

If you subtract 2 points (as a start), you are more likely in the ball park.

ICG's AU50 is everybody else's XF40 or maybe XF45.

 

I am not sure I understand what you mean by adding the words "for crossover purposes." If they crossover, then ICG is as good as NGC and PCGS all of the time. Am I understanding you correctly?

I have bought ICG slabbed coins and I have never been disappointed but I bought the coin, not the slab. I have a couple PCGS coins I am unhappy with because I don't think PCGS got the grade right: too high, or improper grade.