Ibis or Amphora

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Bing, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    About a month or so ago, I purchased this Cherronesos AR Hemidrachm from a dealer who suggested the figure in one of the incuse squares is an Ibis. I have researched this coin through a lot of web sites including Barry Murphy's "The Coinage of Thracian Cherronesos", and have not been able to find any reference to an Ibis on these coins. However, while looking at all the examples, it seems to me to resemble the coins with an Amphora (http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/chersonese/pics/00579q00.jpg). I would appreciate everyone's opinion. Also, while I know these coins are widely faked, I have checked and double checked the fake databases, but have found no match.
    Cherronesos 6.jpg
    THRACE
    AR Hemidrachm
    OBVERSE: Forepart of lion right, head turned back
    REVERSE: Quadripartite incuse square, VE beside pellet / amphora
    Struck at Cherronesos, 400-350 BC
    2.22g, 13mm
    BMC Thrace pg. 185, 39; Weber 2423; McClean 4111-4112

    A little background quoted loosely from a FAC discussion:
    Cherronesos is Greek for 'peninsula' and several cities used the name. Chersonesus (the city) has never been found. It is sometimes accepted that the hemidrachms were minted in the main city of Thracian Chersonesus, Cardia and Wikipedia gives the location of Cardia as the Gallipoli peninsula at the head of Saros bay. The coins were struck either by the peninsula as a league, or by a lost city of the same name on the peninsula, or by Cardia.

    Please, I am very interested in your opinions; and, of course, post any related coins.
     
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  3. Eng

    Eng Senior Eng

    Awesome coin jw, i don't own one, but do need to get one!!:)
     
  4. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Fabric and style look good to me. I don't think it's an amphora. Are the light spots to the right of the so-called ibis raised, or is it just toning?
     
    swamp yankee likes this.
  5. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Raised. Why? Does that mean something?
     
    swamp yankee likes this.
  6. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Try VE beside pellet // lekythos with strigil attached to strap
    BMC Thrace pg. 185, 44; Weber 2420; McClean 4113
     
  7. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    By golly, I think you may have the right of it PP.
     
    swamp yankee and Pishpash like this.
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Hmm, I'm not sure what to make of the reverse object. I don't think it is an amphora. Those are oriented differently relative to the lines created by the incuse areas. The reverse objects, including letters and monograms, are typically readable when the coin is oriented like this:

    Bing-CherronesosReverse.jpg

    Edited to add that Pish's suggestion sounds promising. @Pishpash, do you have a picture of that coin? I didn't find one although I haven't searched "everywhere" :).
     
    randygeki, dlhill132 and Alegandron like this.
  9. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    Yes, this is it. That's why I was asking about the stuff to the right.
     
  10. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

  11. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

  12. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    Thank you all for the help in attributing/identifying. You have no idea how much I have looked.
     
  13. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian

    I think it's just really worn.
     
    TIF likes this.
  14. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I believe that is correct.
     
  15. Pishpash

    Pishpash Well-Known Member

    Sorry, I just stepped out for a minute :(
     
  16. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Nice coin, congrats.

    [​IMG]
    Thrace, Chersonesos (386 - 338 B.C.)
    AR Hemidrachm
    O:Forepart of lion right, head reverted.
    R: Quadripartite incuse square with alternating raised and sunken quarters; pellet to left of VE monogram and pentagram above pellet in opposite sunken quarters.
    13mm
    2.4g
    BMC 43; McClean –; Weber 2422; SNG Copenhagen –; SNG Dreer 115.
     
  17. Pellinore

    Pellinore Well-Known Member

    What a fascinating varieties.
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Looking at the first photo I see a bit of a wiggle to the center line suggesting some movement when struck and providing the bit of curve changing pottery into a bird neck. I'm with Pish's ID.
     
    Pishpash and Bing like this.
  19. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Hey Bing, I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure that it's an Ibis with his trusty amphora by his side (no brainer)

    :pigeon:
     
    Bing likes this.
  20. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I like your thinking. It's a no brainer.
     
  21. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Wow, @Mat you need to cook up a batch of Witches Brew with that nice pentagram!
     
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