I have a dilemma....

A couple of years ago I bought 5 raw 1934-D Peace $ off Ebay. I think I paid about $180 for them.

Low and behold all 5 coins are the King of Peace $ VAM-4 Small DDO...

I drop off the coins at a Long Beach show for grading and 4 come back MS. One even comes back MS-64. Top pop...

One coin comes back in an NSC as AU Details Improper Cleaning...

Now all 5 coins looked exactly the same. I couldnt see any evidence of cleaning prior to submitting them. All of them had a nice original patina.

I sell off 4 for a very nice profit. I kept the one in the NCS slab.

This VAM in AU sells for $75.00 or so. In MS-62 it goes for $1275 and in MS-63 it goes for $2650.

What would you do ? Sell it as is in the NCS? Crack it and sell it raw ? Crack it and resubmit ? Crack it, dip it and ______ (fill in the blank)

Or should I just keep this ultra rarity in case I want to do a Peace $ VAM set someday. Only 25 have been graded by NGC and only 8 are MS.

 

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Crack it and resubmit the gains outweigh the losses.

 

go back and ask them where the cleaning is.

 

You could try again, but it seems as you made a pretty large profit, I would keep the coin as is. You have a very nice coin and don't have a cent in it.
The first thing I would do though is post a pic of the coin so we can all enjoy it. :thumb:

 

POST a photo here and lets see.

 

I would have kept the MS-64 and sold off the others and I'd still have a free coin but I'd wait 10 years and then sell it when it's realized it's potential.

To crack it an sell it raw would be immoral and dishonest but oh well.
To crack and resubmit would be fun and a crap shoot but ..why not.
To sell as is, would be honest but might yield less money that the previous options.
To keep it wouldn't make sense either ..when deciding which coins to keep the rule of thumb is keep the best and sell the rest.

 

If I do resubmit it and it doesnt net grade -- its a MS 63/64 IMHO.

I wanted to keep the Top pop -- but property taxes said I had to sell it.

Here's the ethical issue -- so I resubmit and it grades an MS-63 and I do sell it.... Should I tell potential buyers that the coin was originally net graded by NCS as Improperly Cleaned ???

Do I have a responsibility to tell the history of the coin ?

 

I would think if it came back ms graded, it wouldn't matter much what happened the first time. If it truly doesn't look cleaned it shouldn't matter.
Just my humble opinion and 2 cents worth. (I'd still keep it though)

 

Yeah... I am going to resubmit it... if it net grades again I think I will just give up and auction the coin on Ebay. If it comes back as MS, well now I got some thinking to do...

 

I'd re-submit. Let us know how it goes.

 

Seems like a good item to crack and resubmit to me!
Good Luck

 

Crack and re-submit....as has been said, the gains outweigh the losses. As far as disclosing it's prior NCS net grade, if it comes back a no problem, graded coin, why bother? Coins are cracked all the time....some come back graded, some still have the issues and are returned in their net graded NCS (NGC now)/net graded ANACS/genuine PCGS slabs. If it comes back as a no problem NGC, why bother explaining? You could, as alot of us could, potentially have one of these re-submitted coins in your/our collection. If it's in an MS63 holder, then thats what it is, no need to go any further.

It's not like you AT'ed a coin and have something to hide.

 

Forgot to mention this....

Nice score on a tough date. Even without the VAM, you scored nicely. Depends on how fidgety you are to see if it will grade fully. I'd do it now....if it still comes back problem graded, put it away for awhile, and try it again.

 

Awesome luck! Good luck with the re-grading. Seems like a sensible thing to do.

 

No point in resubmitting it. You know that once a coin is cleaned, it is instantly detectable by experts. Any further attempts to change it's status would just be plain deception. Now if you could get someone to CONSERVE it, and pay for that service, and then pay another fee for resubmission.,well then, that's a different story. Instantly detectable or not...a fee is a fee and opinions can be changed.

 

You're assuming the TPGs are infallible grading gods. Not quite, things do slip by them, especially particularly subtle, old cleanings. That's why the "crack-out game" is so popular. If the coin is as the OP described, then it probably stands a decent shot at slabbing.

More importantly, how do you define conservation? The only way to remove cleaning scratches is to wear them down, as in circulation (obviously leading to a grade reduction).

 

Sorry, but not all cleanings are the same. Some are virtually undetectable by anyone while some are so obvious that anyone can tell. Obviously, that leaves some in the middle that may or may not be detected. And, I know of no cleanings that can be reversed by any conservation.

 

I don't know. I'm pretty sure that I read in here somewhere that cleaned coins were instantly detectable, and always would be detectable, and therefore almost worthless. 'Always' and 'all' were the words used and was the impression I was left with. Did I misinterpret that or have the hobby's standards been redefined?

 

More than once, you will also find statements in CT like "90% (the percentage varies a bit) of all old coins have been cleaned". This applies to slabbed and non-slabbed coins. You will also find people who say all 17XX and 18XX as well as most 19XX silver coins not toned have been cleaned or, in this case, more commonly dipped. A coin that has been properly dipped will not be listed or detectable as cleaned. A coin that has been whizzed will always be obviously cleaned.

 

Just as a for-instance, try reading this thread;
http://www.cointalk.com/t85744/