I can't believe that I overlooked this damage!

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by zekeguzz, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    I've had this 1981-S Washington Quarter for at least a year if not two. It was in a 1981 mint proof set and I had inspected this and the many other mint proof sets
    many times. In order to give my cent, nickel, dime, quarter, Kennedy half dollar, and Ike dollar collections some completeness I took apart every mint proof set from
    1968 to 1998. I used 2x2 Collins Mylar flips and filled them in the appropriate 3-ring binders. Well trying to make all the labels uniform in my Wash. Quarter binder I
    started to try and grade the coins. That's when I spotted this damaged 1981-S and it looks like a PF65 to me and on top of it a Type 2 Clear one too.
    It looks like someone wanted to make it into a brooch or amulet using a small drill. Dumb Jerk did a terrible job. Please express your opinions. THANKS zeke.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. FadeToBlack

    FadeToBlack New Member

    Looks like a strike-through error to me. Increases value...
     
  4. elijahhenry10

    elijahhenry10 New Member

    It looks like someone ruined a nice quarter to me.
     
  5. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    Not necessarily. Errors usually command a premium because they are scarcer than their error free counterpart. However, in a particularly scarce or rare coin, there is usually more demand for the high grade problem free (including mint errors) coins and that demand drives the error free coin price above the scarcer error coin price.

    It's similar to a generalization that patterns are more valuable than than business strikes. While this is typically true, check out the prices of high grade (MS and PF) 1859 cents. The market still determines price, not the coin.
     
  6. FadeToBlack

    FadeToBlack New Member

    I understand this, but this is mostly true of rarities, condition or otherwise...

    But on a common-date proof coin?
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I dunno, that's really odd, especially on a Proof.

    Zeke says he took the coin out of a mint packaged Proof set, so whatever happened to that coin happened at the mint. It's not post strike damage.

    And if you look carefully at the pictures you can see that there was damage of some kind to the die itself. Look at the first picture, you can see raised bumps and lines around the main spot as well as in the fields between the main spot and the Y and up by the Y and the T. Those raised bumps and lines had to be depressions in the die for them to be raised on the coin. The raised lines (that can be best seen in the 2nd and 4th pics) almost look like short little die cracks, but I do not think they are die cracks, I think they were just damage to the die.

    I'm wondering if perhaps there was a strikethrough on the coin struck before this one, or a couple of coins before this one, then the piece of metal or whatever it was broke apart and the pieces damaged the fields of the die in the subsequent strike, which resulted in the raised bumps and lines on this coin. And it would appear that a large piece of the strikethrough remained embedded in the die and that is what caused the large spot of damage.

    And I think the idea of the retained strikethrough breaking up on a previous strike and thus causing the additional damage to the fields of the die is reinforced by the raised portions inside the main circular depression. For that is where the smaller pieces that damaged the die fields would have come from.

    It's just a guess, but I'm guessing that at least 2 and perhaps 3 or 4 coins were struck and damaged prior to this one.

    It's up to you of course Zeke, but seeing as how that is on a Proof, and errors on a Proof are certainly not common, if it were my coin and I had any interest in errors, I might want to have that one attributed and verified.
     
  8. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks

    Don't feel bad. I had a 1936 DDO Lincoln Cent sitting in a tube with other "better wheats" I've pulled from circulation...didn't notice that it was a DDO for at LEAST two years...must have been in a hurry...

    And, this may just be me, but I don't think this is the Type 2 for this year.
     
  9. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Boy! I don't know now. I don't know very much at all with a coin like this. But I respect your knowledge and experience GDJMSP. You've given me some real hope.
    But thinking back to when I was carefully opening the proof sets, sometimes they came apart like they had been opened then sealed
    before I got them. I inspected the edges and there was some sort sealant added, but very, very little, and not evenly on maybe three or four sets. Again not knowing how the U. S. Mint seals these sets, I passed it off because I didn't see anything wrong with any of the coins. They're sonically sealed, or something, aren't they? As for TPG'ing it and other coins I have held onto, it'll be awhile before I can pay for that. I dearly would love to give it my best shot at PCGS.
     
  10. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Zach even if the sets had been opened and tampered with, post strike damage could not cause the raised bumps and lines. That could only happen if the die had been damaged.

    You have the coin in hand, so if those bumps and lines are indeed raised as they appear to be in the pics, then I don't see any other way they could have occurred other than what I described.

    But, I'm not an error guy, so I could be wrong. But I think it's worth checking out. maybe you could send your pics to Mike Diamond, he's a member here. Send him a PM and ask.
     
  11. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The large "bump" is not raised, I can't tell about the others because I have difficulty telling truly there, what are artifacts of the image and what is from the holder.
     
  12. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Hang on, I have more pictures coming. Here is an analogy. From what I see this looks like a lacquered piece of metal took a scrape and the layer is peeling. Also from what the pics show is there isn't a hole. I see no depth to the scrape. Pardon my weak description but when I post the pics
    you'll get to see. I had to place the quarter on edge and try tried to show this but it takes better equipment than what I have.
     
  13. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    Unlike most posts here on this topic, it really looks like you might have hit the jackpot.
     
  14. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    I had a ton of difficulty last night trying to post these pictures. Here is my second try.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Here are more pictures. They all look almost the same but I tried to get the best angles. The quarter is on edge almost vertical. My camera and macro lens aren't the greatest. I cannot get any closer. It'll take much better equipment to see this peeling really close and maintaining focus. In the last photo I thought it showed the edges
    of the peeling and the little pile of the very left or end of this " scratch ".
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Cazkaboom

    Cazkaboom One for all, all for me.

    Also doesn't look like a type 2.
     
  17. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Question: In picture 3 of the last batch the top of the letter ' Y ' looks like it is canted. To me it looks like the ' Y ' took a hit or near miss forcing our left top of the ' Y '
    to to be a little below the rim and the right top to be above the rim. This cannot be normal can it? I did not look at any other quarters to judge this.

    zeke
     
  18. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Has anyone's opinion changed since I posted the last nine pictures? If this is mint damage I am seriously interested what PCGS's results
    would be. I'm also going to PM Mike Diamond about this coin.
     
  19. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    I've decided it is a micrometer hit, or to send it into the grading company for an opinion :)
     
  20. zekeguzz

    zekeguzz lmc freak

    Great, thanks a lot.

    zeke
     
  21. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Doesn't look like a strike-through or PMD.

    It looks like a lamination that fell away. Basically, the planchet had a defect in the metal when it was struck, and at some point (likely at striking) it fell away.

    At least that's what my eyes are telling me. :)

    Neat coin.
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page