I am on a mission to distinguish grading services.

I am on a mission to evaluate grading services.

This is my first offering and they are all half dollars.

 

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Cool. I'm looking to do the same with Ike proofs or Morgans. Not sure which yet.

 

This is my next photo effort

The 1st coin is PCI and the 2nd ANACS. The cameo face on the PCI is virtually perfect while what would appear breaks in the luster appear on the face of the ANACS. Hence the difference in grade.

 

Thanks GDJMSP, maybe I worded it wrong. I can see very minor contact marks in the 66 that I do not in the 67.

 

I appreciate your saying that you can find an accurately graded PCI coin sometimes but what do you base the entire statement on? I can understand that everyone may have a favorite grading company but to discount these people on a wholesale basis makes me wonder. I have searched ( scoured ) this forum and seem to read the same old story but nothing concrete. Is there really any hard evidence? A few people out here who have actually been defrauded on some PCI coins?

 

The truth is that when you know how to grade you can look at many PCI coins and see that more offen that not they are overgraded.....PCI used to be pretty good but there were some changes and they just aren't what they were.

The hard evidence out there is to know how to grade and look at the PCI slabs....GD knows more about PCI than I do so he might be able to share more than this.

Speedy

 

The problem with second/third tier TPGs is not that they are defrauding people. They give their opinions, based on their own standards. The difficulty with that is that many coin buyers don't realize that those standards are not the same as those of the majors, and if they can't grade for themselves, they overpay.

Since we're talking about opinions, there's no such thing as "hard evidence" that one opinion is right and another is wrong - only a consensus among the reputable dealers and more knowledgeable collectors that Company A grades are generally accurate, Company B's are generally a point or two to high, and Company C is really a marketing tool of an unscrupulous seller, not a true third party.

Let's face it though - pick a coin, any coin, ask three collectors about its grade, and you may get four answers.

 

Thanks Satootoko,

When I renewed my interest in coins, which had wained circa 1980, six or so months ago I read the following link long and hard and although I do not know who the writer is this just seems to make good down to earth sense.

http://rg.ancients.info/guide/slabs.html

Since modern coins and mostly modern proof coins are my interest the grades of 65 to 70 are the area that I look at. I would like for them all to be 70's so I start to look for reasons that they cannot qualify. Grading standards like these listed below seem reasonable to me and if the coin does not meet this criteria I would not feel the obligation to own it. I have held coins in my hand by more than one grading service ( SGS not even considered ) that claimed to meet this criteria with their grade that did not but that was more the exception than the rule.

MS 65 - This is the gem category. Coin should be fully struck with eye appeal. Either brilliant or toned but there should not be any unsightly marks or color that negates eye appeal. Any marks should be very minor in appearance. Prices spread out even further.

MS 66 - A coin that just jumps out at you as being nicer than an MS 65. The main devices on either side should have no more than very minor ticks and the fields should be cleaner than that of an MS 65.

MS 67 - A superior coin that has no major distractions to speak of. The fields should be near flawless with just the slightest contact on the main device. This coin should emit a look of satisfaction from the viewer. Prices increase further especially for coins with short supplies and strong demand.

MS 68 - A difficult grade to determine by most experts. When does a coin become MS 68 but is not quite MS69 or 70? A very superior coin with maybe just a minor tick on either side keeping it from perfection.

MS 69 - This is a coin that should create a gasp when viewed. There should be no imperfections to the naked eye. With a magnifying glass a minor mark or impediment may be visible.

MS 70 - A perfect coin with no imperfections seen with a magnifying glass. There should be no marks whatsoever; the coin must look like it just left the Mint. Very unusual in early coins as the mint did not have the quality they do today. Modern coins have been given this exalted grade although there is debate whether coins can be perfect.

It seems most graded coins ( the exception being a brief encounter with the SGS malarkey ) I have are pretty accurately described by their grader. Most 65 coins jump out at you as being well less than perfect and you can still find that nearly invisible flaw on a 69.

I think there are cherry's out there to be picked and the market will catch up with those special coins at some time in the future. If that special coin is already in a PCGS slab ( unless you are the one who discovered it and had it graded ) in my opinion much of the profit to be made on it has already been made.

Time will tell!

 

1,000% agree with satootoko. Everyone should try to remember that the grading services are in reality a place full of people. People are not perfect at anything they do and opinions and estamates are just that.
airedale listed some really nice idealogical descriptions and that is what the grading services may try to attain. However, didn't someone once say BEAUTY IS IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER?

 

The problem is with the grading standers that you posted....it doesn't help anyone grade.
One stander can't help anyone grade all the coins...you don't grade a Morgan Dollar like you do a Barber dime....and you don't grade a 1881-S Morgan dollar like you do a 1900-O Morgan dollar.
Each coin is graded by itself....this can't be learned by just going by the set of rules you posted....

I'm still no good at grading....I still have lots of problems and tons to learn....but grading is a art that takes time to learn....I think the best way to learn is to read as much as you can about grading and also grade tons of coins hands-on.

As Roy said....each Grading Company uses its own grading standers.....But it can be easly seen that NGC, PCGS, ANACS and ICG grade the best....their grading is like the hobby grades whereas PCI and SGS and SEGS don't.....sometimes you can find a really nice coin in any slab....but for the most part you should stay with PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG.

Speedy

 

Not really....what you really have is 2 coins from 2 companies.....the first one is a PCI 1966...the other one is a ANACS 1965....as I stated above...you grade each coin by itself.
Also since the 2 grading Companies use their own grading standers there is something else....

Out of all of the coins in your big photo of 8 slabs the ones that will be graded the best will be the 5 coins in NGC and PCGS holders.....the one from ICG since it is dated after 1964 will be about 2 points overgraded.
It might not be but more then likely yes....and yes ICG even said once that then tend to overgrade coins dated after 1964....
As for the Franklin....since I collect them pretty much in Proof I can say pretty sure that the coin you have isn't DCAM...I think the date on the slab is 1957?? any Proof Franklin other than the ones dated in the 60's are really hard to find with DCAM....but PCI seems to find alot of them.

Speedy

 

Keeping in mind that my grading skills are weak, my opinion from the slabs I've seen is that PCI grades seem to be more accurate for circulated coins than uncirculated. So if you needed a VF-EF coin and wanted to be sure it was authentic, buying the PCI slab might save you some money [since they seem to be heavily discounted at times] without sacrificing quality.

 

You could sure be right Speedy! That triple reflection on the IN GOD W does intrigues me, but as you say you are the expert.

 

No no.....I'm not an expert...I just collect them and have for about 5 years....
The reflection has nothing to do with the DCAMO on the slab....

I see that the coin is a 1952!!! that is a pretty hard one to get so if I were you I would send it to NGC for grading....I don't think it will come back CAMEO much less DCAMO because Franklin's shirt doesn't show much CAMEO at all so that would kill that from the grade.

Just in case anyone reading this thread don't know what CAMEO is let me put it in a short few words.

When looking at a proof coin sometimes when you turn the coin in the light the coin will look totaly bacl and white....the background will be black and the letters,,,numbers,,,face or what ever on the coin will be white.
Now that has to be totaly white....on this Franklin see how his head is white but down on his shirt under the letters its not so much....that would kill the CAMEO.
DCAMEO just means that the cameo is really good....it stands for DEEP CAMEO.

Speedy

 

Thanks Speedy. I am certainly having my times with this digital camera. This is about the best I can come up with without shading the device. Do you have a picture of what a DCAM Franklin Proof should look like.
Thanks in advance.

 

I don't have one myself but here is one I found online....
I went and looked at NGC's site and looked up how many 1952 Proof Franklins they have graded with DCAMEO or as they said UCAM....and there are 25....so you can see that for this date it isn't easy to find that.
You have a really nice coin...and I bet it would be a nice high grade but not DCAMEO...
If you ever send it off for grading make sure you let us know what it comes back as!!!

Speedy

 

Has anyone been burned by GGC besides me?