How would this grade?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by panamagold, Nov 12, 2009.

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  1. panamagold

    panamagold Junior Member

    Wanting to get an idea of how this coin would grade. If you could point out problems to avoid, please do...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    PG
     
    panamagold, Nov 12, 2009
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  3. u4ia

    u4ia Member

    I don't really know this series but I'll guess XF40ish.
    Has it been cleaned? Looks like some polishing lines on it.
     
    u4ia, Nov 12, 2009
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  4. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Love the coin! I'm not familiar with this particular type of gold, but I believe it to have been cleaned sometime, and may be in the AU53-55 range.
    Very nice coin!
     
    tmoneyeagles, Nov 12, 2009
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  5. panamagold

    panamagold Junior Member

    Thx, it's actually a pretty common U.S. $5.00 Coronet, but it's good for just a little shy 1/4 ounce of gold. I don't know the history of the coin so I can't comment on cleaning.

    I've seen may coins with this type of marking and wasn't sure what caused it. Almost all of the $5.00 Indians I've seen have this type of "scratch", but thought it might just be part of normal circulation wear.

    PG
     
    panamagold, Nov 12, 2009
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  6. fishaddicit

    fishaddicit Senior Member

    I would grade it genuine. It seems to have been whizzed.
     
    fishaddicit, Nov 12, 2009
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  7. tmoneyeagles

    tmoneyeagles Indian Buffalo Gatherer

    Whoo, hoo a series I know! :D
    I haven't noticed the markings you are talking about in $5/$2.5 incused indians.
    The markings on those coins, that I see are normally deeper, and actual scratches, not like hairlines (excluding the ones that have been cleaned)
    Now, with the older gold, the markings of which you speak, I have seen more often, almost like a cleaning, and it always makes me wonder, if it is just a circulated coin, or a cleaned one.
     
    tmoneyeagles, Nov 12, 2009
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  8. bigjpst

    bigjpst Well-Known Member

    very nice coin...just a novice here, but it looks to me like it was cleaned as well...I have a st. gaudens looks very similar..
     
    bigjpst, Nov 12, 2009
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  9. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    Xf
     
    Leadfoot, Nov 12, 2009
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  10. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    Seems like an awfull lot o' wear on that mint mark compared to the rest of the coin.......
     
    green18, Nov 12, 2009
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  11. tbarreca

    tbarreca Ruthless Realist

    VF-30, 35ish.
     
    tbarreca, Nov 13, 2009
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  12. MissSasha

    MissSasha Junior Member

    I'm not liking the mintmark wear either.

    Keep in mind, I don't have the 1/1000th of experience then most members here, just something about it feels off to me.

    And the general "cleaned" look would make me run from this one.
     
    MissSasha, Nov 13, 2009
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  13. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I'll guess XF-45. Probably cleaned but I like it.
     
    ldhair, Nov 13, 2009
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  14. panamagold

    panamagold Junior Member

    Not an expert; let me ask.

    1: What are the tell tale signs of cleaning. I'm having trouble understanding how I would distinguish cleaning from normal wear. How obvious is the cleaning on this one? What gave it away?

    2: If sent to PCGS or the like, would they slap the problem coin/cleaned label on it? Is any level of cleaning acceptable?

    PG
     
    panamagold, Nov 13, 2009
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  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    OK, on the obv, look at LIBERTY, see the dark gunk stuck in the recesses of the letters, B, E and R in particular. See the dark coloration around the stars and date. But none of it is visible anywhere else on the coin - that's because it has bene cleaned off. And harshly cleaned off. Look at all the lines and fine scratches on the left side of the coin starting between the date and the star and moving upwards. They are just easier to see in this area because of the light is catching them. But all of those little fine shiny spots you see all over the coin are more of the same. It's just that from that angle the pic is only catching portions of them in the light.

    Same basic thing on the rev. Look at the legends and the shield - dark gunk stuck in the recesses again. All the little fine shiny spots all over. If you turned it in the light you'd see fine scratches all over it.

    Absolutely. Any TPG would.

    Yes, but harsh or improper cleaning is never acceptable. Harsh or improper cleaning may be defined as any cleaning that leaves tell-tale traces of that cleaning on the coin.

    About the only cleaning that can be done that is acceptable is cleaning done with a chemical. It's commonly called dipping. But even that can be over-done or done improperly and then it is not acceptable any longer either.

    Learning to recognize harsh or improper cleaning is one the harder things there is to learn about coins, especially with gold coins. This one that you pictured is rather easy actually, one of the easiest even because it was done by somebody with no knowledge.

    One of two reasons why it was porobably done -

    1 - a novice was trying to make his coin look better. This is actually probably the single most common reason there is.

    2 - somebody was trying to improve a coin that they knew was only worth bullion content so they could sell it to somebody else that would not know what they were buying.

    As to the grade of the coin, I'd say it has VF details. The rev is better than the obv but a coin is always graded by its worst side.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 13, 2009
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  16. panamagold

    panamagold Junior Member

    Thanks for the insight, always glad to learn something new. Based on what you mentioned above, would your rate this as a Bullion coin?

    For learning sake, is this also a cleaned coin? Trying to apply what you pointed out.

    [​IMG]
     
    panamagold, Nov 13, 2009
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  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes to both.
     
    GDJMSP, Nov 14, 2009
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  18. Phil Ham

    Phil Ham Hamster

    I don't save these coins and thought it was an AU58 before reading the other opinions by the experts. I've read other threads that you can only be an expert on a few coins to get to be a good grader of that seriously. Obviously, that is the case on this one. It is very eye appealing to me. It does looked lightly cleaned but it is hard for me to tell on this soft metal.
     
    Phil Ham, Nov 14, 2009
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  19. panamagold

    panamagold Junior Member

    I was a bit surprised myself. I felt the coin had good details and bought it on that merit. It also had enough of an unclean look that I figured it might just be wear. Guess I was wrong :)

    It would be nice to see a piece that does have normal wear, no cleaning for comparison. That would help me avoid them in the future.

    PG
     
    panamagold, Nov 14, 2009
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  20. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    Here's one o' mine. Bought it years ago as a BU but I now suspect it to be only an AU.....
     

    Attached Files:

    green18, Nov 14, 2009
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  21. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins

    Maybe a little larger?
     

    Attached Files:

    green18, Nov 14, 2009
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