I'll keep this as short as possible, ask any questions if I miss anything. I'm interested in collecting coins, one thing I want to do is keep them fairly well protected, they're going to be stored in air tight coin capsules, in a stable environment. The coins I'm collecting arent worth a lot, they're british forigen territories... (isle of man, balwick of Jersey, falkland island coins etc) american quater dollar designs, canadian coins etc etc, they're coins that really arent worth a lot but I find great fun in researching and finding them through friends, shops etc. - we really are working with face value coins... Theres no point in storing them correctly if in the long run contamination damages the coin. I understand people use things like distilled water -> acetone.... the problem is, some of my coins are copper/bronze. (Brisiths 1ps and 2ps) which I have read can have poor results. My question is: How can I 'clean'/preserve these coins by remove any contamination that comes from fingers and pockets? I dont actually want to clean the coin, I just want to remove any potential contaminants that may cause damage and then store and pass on to the next generation... Please forgive my ignorance, I've already done a hundred google searches but I'm still struggling to understand it all, all the coins are pretty common, they're not rare, they're shiny with nice designes and I want them to look good in 60+ years.. Thank you
Put them in flips, books, or air-tites, put them away, and leave them be. Seriously, don't do anything to them.
Wouldnt any surface grim from my fingers damage the coins in the long run? If not, I'll leave those ones alone and put them in coin capsules/air-tites straight away. + A few of the quater dollars do have some grime, I've seen people using acetone to get ride of these bits of dirt to better expose the details of the coins. That's something I'd be interested in. Being in the UK, finding these coins isnt as accessible to me, if I was in america I'd just look for one in better condition.
I know distilled water. I will let someone else speak on acetone. Pure distilled water should be neutral with a pH of 7 immediately after distillation, but because it absorbs carbon dioxide from the atmosphere, it's actually slightly acidic with a pH of 5.8 just a couple hours to a couple days time after distillation with exposure to air. not too acidic, not too alkaline, in this sense it's similar to acetone, although acetone is a solvent and can dissolve substances, it has a neutral pH also of 7, and isn't an acid or an alkaline. That said what it is good for is not leaving spots and being basically free of dissolved solids and minerals or salts for this reason it's better as a rinse than lets say tap water, which contains some form of chlorine, or well water which may be hard with dissolved minerals. like anything though, if you were to use the same distilled water coin after coin in a container, it will build up new dissolved solids, and could leave spotting or residue, always best to use fresh new distilled water for each coin. As far as corrosion or discoloration of copper or bronze, I've never had it happen with mild soaks in distilled water to loosen up debris caked into the coin for any of the lincoln cent versions, however, if you allowed it to soak for long periods, the debris itself may be harmful and when it dissolves becomes part of the distilled water, it may cause a problem. for this reason I say old, used dirty distilled water is bad. I use distilled water for new BU coins from circulation, treating the surface of potential contaminants like die grease, or dust or someones fingerprints from the rolling process before putting them in 2x2s. I also use it on circulation finds that have seen some wear or dirt without adverse effects. However, older coins that may have spent prolonged time in soil are a different animal all together, there can be corrosion from salts or minerals or the soils pH buried under the smutz, or just uneven toning.because the smutz protected that area. you really don't know until you've gotten under it. In this case you have to determine if it will help or hinder by removing it. repeated distilled water baths, with frequent water changes will remove soil salts even ocean salts that have penetrated the coins surface over time of it being out there and lost, you can deactivate it in this manner, but it's also likely the damage has already been done. A lot like removing glue from a copper coin thats been on there for a year with acetone, the surface underneath that glue will not be the same color as the rest of the coin no matter what you do to it, trying to "fix it" will make it worse. The idea is really conservation here, not correction or repair, but just to stop what's affecting it from continuing to affect it. with BU uncirculated new coins I know 99.999% of the time, it's going to be a little grease or some fine metal dust from he minting process on the surface of the coin which I like to remove before putting them away longer term. With circulated coins, it could be all kinds of things it's been exposed to, and results may vary from one situation to the next, you really don't know what's underneath the gunk until you get under the gunk, it could be corrosion, or it could have protected it and bright and shiny under the gunk, and either way you have uneven coloration but you won't know until you do it. with copper/bronze, there's a whole another school of thought for preservation using different oils and such, the "copperheads" do though. I have no idea how that works. Also as I understand it, there is "browning" or toning copper and bronze using various methods, my opinion, this takes a lot of practice, experimentation, and failures to figure it out and not do damage and a bit more advanced for my tastes, sort of specialized. Youtube video about preserving early copper coins: I found it slightly interesting, however it doesn't cover the years of using oils on copper coins, how to do it from start to finish for preservation purposes,but the main idea is the light layer of oil blocks the coin from contact with more damaging contaminants like sulfer.
According to @Suarez on this thread https://www.cointalk.com/threads/mint-state-ancient-bronze-and-copper-coins.365252/page-2 ...once copper has been touched, the tarnishing process is irreversible. He's talking about ancient coins, but the principle is the same. As far as water is concerned, it's one of the causes of corrosion (as it allows chemicals to change to more destructive ones), so adding it would only help if you know exactly what's on the coin (and, indeed, exactly what the coin is made of) and how it will react. This is why the most common answer you'll get is 'leave them alone.' Suarez's full explanation:
What Suarez in that thread is talking about is sweat (salt, proteins, urea, and ammonia) will absolutely damage the surface of a coin and says it's unavoidable because of the minting practice of ancient copper coins. also unavoidable considering ancients will have spent time in wet soil or water that contains dissolved solids/minerals/salts/decaying proteins and carbons and only under perfect conditons 1 in a billion odds could a real "mint state" ancient copper coin exist. you can't "restore" copper coins to like new appearance/fresh copper without damaging the patina/discoloration. Every coin in that thread were at some point cleaned and preserved, likely not stripped of toning or patina, but cleaned of surface contaminants and preserved. Rinsing or short term soaking in distilled water does nothing but remove surface contaminants. Letting a coin sit in water for weeks, months years will have a negative effect. Fingerprints from sweaty hands will etch the surface of a coin over time.
Being honest, this is confusing me more and more. I've read loads of comments else where, of people saying it's a great idea to follow distilled water -> acetone-> xylene and then store. Or at least acetone and then store (in the context of removing anything that you would consider contamination that this could degrade the coin later) So the coins that are in a condition I'm happy with will be untreated, stored and shouldn't be effected by any contaminants etc? what should I do about coins that arent in the best shape? (Visable Finger prints, small amounts of dirt)? I know cleaned coins are devalued but I don't want to look at unnecessarily grubby coin. It's also not just copper, its other meats too such as 10ps (nickel plated steel)
I'm very much not an expert, and I feel your pain. From what I understand, this whole area is debatable, which is why it's hard to get a straight answer. My limited understanding so far is that: - The surface of your coins is going to change over time whatever you do. You can slow that down by putting them in inert holders (not PVC), but air and moisture will get into anything to some extent. - The change in the surface of your coins will be in the form of toning (silver) or a patina (copper). This happens because the coin surface reacts with the air and what's on the surface. These will generally make your coins less shiny, but often more attractive. You can't be sure how they will turn out. - You could try to clean this off, but actually that would most likely devalue your coins. A patina will protect a coin in the very long term, and is often desirable. - If you do anything to a coin, you run the risk of making it worse (or causing problems where there are none). So most of the time you will want to avoid this. If a coin has been circulating, it will already have reacted with whatever's on the surface, and, indeed, have started developing a patina. If it hasn't been circulating, there shouldn't be anything on it anyway. - Sometimes the patina/toning or whatever's on the coin is not attractive. If, on balance, it is so ugly it would be better to risk damaging it that leaving it as it is, then cleaning it might be an option. You might also have to clean a coin if it has 'bronze disease', as this will destroy it anyway.
"distilled water -> acetone-> xylene" is a progression or method. you may be satisfied with distilled water results, or it may not take off the gunk. If it does't take off the gunk, the next step would be treating it with acetone. Now Xylene would be a 3rd step, it's pH is 6.5, and it's a different chemical make up than Acetone, so it acts differently where Acetone may not do the job on lets say adhesive residue, Xylene may do it. Toluene would be another step, it has a pH of 3.15-4.75 and another solvent. people don't usually go to Toluene. Both Xylene and Toluene aren't water soluble. Acetone is water soluble. you may find distilled water does the trick, you may not be happy with the results and then take the next step to acetone. youy may not be happy with acetone results and take the next step to xylene, or toluene. it's really not a 3 step process. it's more of a progression. try this first, if not good, go to step two, ect. Some people start with acetone, and stay there and only use acetone for this purpose. it really depends on what the contaminant/surface debris s you are trying to remove, and what will work. and sometimes, nothing works. right around a pH of 4 you are heading towards ketchup or vinegar pH of 3 is Lemon Juice or Coca-Cola, this absolutely would discolor copper/bronze if exposed too long, so like Toluene is kind of a last resort, and a quick put it on, take it off and takes some skill. my overall opinion is, you should practice on similar coins, that aren't pieces of your collection or low value and easily replaceable and learn what it will or won't do when it comes to cleaning up coins. Another misconception. "cleaned" coins are devalued. "improperly cleaned" coins where the surface was damaged, cleaned with abrasives, harsh acids, machines, this this is what it's meant as "cleaned coins are devalued". this is why I suggest sticking with as neutral pH of 7 as possible, dipping in fresh clean, and air dry or blot dry in the case of xylene or toluene which take forever to evaporate. in all honesty, it's so much easier to say "leave it completely alone" then to describe all of this. or the hundred ways you can make a mistake in properly cleaning a coin and it becoming "improperly cleaned" or misjudging a reaction (curveball) it takes practice, experience and knowledge to get it right and still, I think accidents happen occasionally and it goes wrong and should have just left it alone. if fingerprints are old on the coin, it's likely etched into the surface, and likely trying to rinse with anything listed will have no effect on removing them. there's things you can and can't do. it is confusing. even for me who sticks with distilled water as, as far as I'm willing to go. cleaning properly, just removes dirt/contaminants form the coin surface, it doesn't affect the patina/toning/luster or remove metal frm the coin. "dipping" in metal cleaner that does remove tarnish or toning is something else entirely, some are acidic, some are oxidizers that strip off contaminants, and toning.
For what it's worth, the folks who process coins at grading companies handle them with bare hands before they're put into slabs. Now, those folks are probably careful about washing their hands, and not especially sweaty or grimy -- but still, they're pros, and their company is on the hook if a (non-copper) coin degrades in the holder, so I'd expect them to be following practices that protect the coins. Those practices don't routinely include soaking the coin in water, acetone, or anything else, as far as I know.
The main thing I have on my mind is when the circulated coin has been touched by normal every day hands they will leave small deposits on the coin. What's on my mind is will this cause problems 60+ years down the road? Im sure we all agree prevention is better than a cure... and that's what I'm trying todo, I don't want a situation where the coin has a been damaged by oils when it could have been easily prevented by removing that oil/sweat/etc now... Basically will it damage/destroy the coin eventually? (I guess it will depending what it is, keeping it simple, let's say it's just natrual oils from human hands and sweat) or Will it 'settle on the coin' and become a part of what collectors value. (Contributing to Toning / patina / a characteristic of the coin that actually the next hypothetical owner wont want to remove and preserve themselves) I know I'm over thinking things.... again I'm never going to sell and I know these coins are very low value...I've just got it in my mind that natrual oils etc will render the a coin such as a newish quater dollar worthless or dammage/destroy the coin eventually - I know I'm over thinking it...
I would start with water and then 2 rinse containers of acetone, as acetone will pick up water remaining on the metal , and after 2 rinses , extremely few water molecules will be there. Store in what you like except PVC containers or "real" or fake ammo containers. The plastic capsules or non-PVC flips are good. Then put them into a snap lid type of food grade such as a square sandwich or even larger. If it says its for food, it will not have any material such as PVC . Also put in a few silica gel desiccant with indicator if you have them and seal the tops securely. Every 5 years check for cracks in the container top or base.
Let me try to clarify your concern. When a coin is struck, brand new, fresh from the mint it's considered "BU". Or uncirculated or "Mint State". Once it starts recieving wear, touching, rubbing, sorting, banging around its grade drops. Visible signs of circulation wear will exclude it from MS and put it in AU... or lower grade. Circulation wear is circulation wear. It will lower the grade. Damage on the other hand can exclude it from being graded at all. Things like carving initial into it, soaking it in citric acid and wearing it down, partially cutting it with metal shears, a whole bunch of things. Now, all coins in circulation have been touched by someone, somewhere unless they are mint fresh and new, especially coins with signs of wear from circulation. So many fingerprints that fingerprints no longer even matter really it's all part of the toning or patina and you can't tell them apart anymore. There are circumstances, especially on collector proof coins that a single fingerprint stands out like a sore thumb. Anyways. Gunk and dirt, glue, gum, verdigris, there are things that if left on a coin can be detrimental and then there things like touching on a circulated coin that amounts to "one more tiny bit of wear" on a worn coin. Obviously you don't want to eat hot wings or cheetos and coin roll hunt while doing it. But in most situations touching the front or back of a circulated coin is harmless besides a little more friction wearing it down a little more. One or a couple fingerprint on a brand new shiny coin = problem A hundred fingerprints on a coin = circulation wear, some toning of the metal and an even surface color, unless crud builds up around the bust or lettering, date, the devices of the coin, in which case what's underneath could be protected, or be getting eaten away depending on what that crud is made of. You are overthinking it. If it's a circulated coin already, it's been handled for a long time, you should be concerned with the crud or gunk or green or blue patches, or black spots on copper but something circulated may have these problems to deal with and neutralize. You really don't want a gunk that really shouldn't be there, sitting on a coin for a long time. If it's just random circulated coins, fingerprints aren't really an issue, one more ain't gonna hurt.
One of the most important things is to store them at a constant temperature. Having the temperature go up and down to a great degree is really bad. Condensation in your coin holders of any type can do a lot of damage. Stay away from garages, attics and even closets that are next to outside walls in places where it gets cold in the winter. You even need to think about that when you are looking at safe deposit boxes.
That helps a lot, thank you. Still though, addressing everything else, a stable environment, propper storage, how big of an issue would organic deposits from hands be on a okay condition circulated coin? Would it cause any problems in time? These comments help a lot
