How the heck is this coin an MS-63 ?!?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1882-R-Ital...Domain_0&hash=item2a17e562f7&autorefresh=true

I would think AU details, no? :scratch:

How would one justify any of it... the MS, the 63, or a number grade in the first place (the gouges on the portrait side look pretty significant).

The bidders obviously paid more attention to the coin than the slabbed grade, but still. I just don't get it.

 

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Hmm odd. I am no pro in foreign coins, but I'd give it an AU at the most. Really dinged up and doesn't have the eye appeal of a MS63.

~Cannyn

 

Maybe NGC banged it up and felt bad..

 

Looks like somebody forgot their glasses to me. Not a horrible looking coin by any means, just no way that thing grades MS.

 

MS61, not even close to MS63

 

Wouldn't the gouges warrant a details grade? The one to the left of the neck/chin looks worse than other coins I've seen that were given a details grade due to "tool marks".

I'm just curious as to how this coin can be MS anything. When I saw it my first instinct was slight circulation wear and issues.

 

His hair and beard, mustache say MS63 but the rest of the coin is questionable. The reverse has one area that looks suspect but I don't think it is terribly over graded. Old gold coins did not look as sharp and refined as modern gold coins so you gotta give plenty of slack for that too. jmo

 

i would grade this coin a 60+- 61 at most it to scratched.. well like the old saying goes buy the coin not the holder...oh they graded 126 of these.. ehh

 

What a frustrating page to look at! All those coins in the background made me close that page as fast as I could. Not a good marketing idea.

 

Agreed... that page is a mess (and that's being kind).

 

This is a damaged coin with clear wear that should grade no higher than AU55.
How it got into a NGC slab is an enigma.

 

I see where the concerns lie here, luster is strong, fields though are questionable, but is there much of a premium with an MS coin? I have run modern and foreign gold at auction in various grades and no grades and usually you have to get an MS65 on the foreign gold or a "70" on the moderns to attract strong bidding.

 

63 does seem a bit high to me. MS61 (with a note about bag marks) would be my call. On a tough day, I would judge it to be an AU55. But, the fields are cleaner than an AU55.

 

It looks to me that the moustache and neckline above the signature has wear. Other MS examples I compared it to had those areas sharper. On this coin it's flattened and the luster is worn off. A couple of the leaves on the reverse also show what appears to be circulation wear, rather than what some people call non-circulation friction wear.

And yes Owle, this is a fairly common world gold piece that doesn't bring a huge premium even in better MS grades.

 

They definitely apply less scrutiny to the lower risk coins like this one. Once you get into the areas where a grade or two make a big difference it is an entirely different matter. The grading services just don't want coins coming back to bite them, and an auction is one way that happens where everyone can comment on the standards used or not. I don't know whether they have different graders for the high end coins than the bullion ones, but it would not surprize me.

 

Would there be $ to be made by sending it in for review?

 

Not enough to matter. If they decide it was over graded, the best scenario is a replacement with a better coin or $$ exchanged for the over graded coin, happens once in a blue moon, relatively. If they do not agree with your concerns, they pocket the grading fee and send you a nice note:

We disagree. Here is your coin back. Have a great day! XOXO Acme grading service

 

IMO the coin is so wildly overgraded as to make me suspect the slab could be counterfeit.
A blind man could see that the coin is clearly not uncirculated.
YMMV