Just looking at my scans on the three cent pieces and wondering (particularly the 1884 and 1885 in the threads here) how those are proofs... just doesnt look like proofs to me... frustrated because the proofs are about $400-$500 each, whereas the circ strikes would be about $10k between them...Maybe the 1885 is looking at the position of the date, but having a tough time with the 1884, especially given the denticles... http://www.cointalk.com/threads/guess-the-grade-1885-nickel-3-cent-piece.233947/ http://www.cointalk.com/threads/1884-three-cent-piece.234059/
How often are the TPGs wrong ? That depends on what you are asking if they are wrong about. - is a coin genuine ? Not wrong very often. - is this a problem coin ? Depends on whose definition you are using and specifically what coin it is. - what grade is this coin ? Wrong more often than they used to be, and more than most might think. Even based on their own published standards. - is this a Proof ? Not wrong very often. - is this coin SMS ? They don't even know most of the time. - what variety is this coin ? Depends on the coin and the variety, they make their share of mistakes. The list goes on, but that covers the majority of things.
Except during the 1870's to 80's era especially on the coppernickel coins. The mint had a lot of problems with the coppernickel proofs. They are frequently poorly or not fully struck, the often have rounded edges, and often have poor or no mirrors. and little or no contrast between the fields and devices. Everything you would normally check to verify proof status do not come up to normal proof quality.
It depends on your perspective. Let's say one keeps cracking out and resubmitting the same coin repeatedly and it gets an MS 66 19 times, but on the 20th submission it gets an MS67. If I'm selling the coin, they were wrong 95% of the time, but that is just fine with me - I made a bundle. From the buyers perspective, they were wrong only 5% of the time, but boy, did cost me. I'd love to see the TPGs just certify a coin as genuine, or at most just give it an old style grade, G, F, XF, Unc., etc. Trying to tell the difference between a MS68 and an MS69 is, as my dad used to say, picking fly poop out of pepper (he said it more colorfully).
All past and current TPG's have been wrong more than a few times in their grading of coins. Remember a fool and his money is separated by another's opinion. I only get coins slabbed for future protection but even then the coin can't get scratch, some have toned nicely. Hope this helps.
Depends on the TPG. PCGS wrong 5% IGC wrong 1% ANACS wrong !% NGC wrong 2% NNC wrong 4% SGS wrong 90%
I hope (and assume...sorry) that your evaluation comes from repeat firsthand experience. I am pleased to see the TPG of my choice (if I ever do take them up on one of their Special Deals) is one of your two one-percenter graders...and I especially appreciate your use of code to indicate your secret preference! Bravo, ANACS!! Seriously, though, folks...how DID you arrive at the figures? Are they published? Thanks, Rip...wlw
These are not correct %'s of TPG's, just a member jerking around and having fun. The truth is though and always remember this.. This is a expensive game and you need two things while playing it, money and friends in the know. I have seem many lower graded coins get to that next level in many occasions and these coins were life changing money for some. The people that are in that circle within the grading companies and huge dealers can steal your wallet without you even being able to cry. Bottom line, learn how to grade coins yourself and don't think if you buy a 10k coin that you will ever make money off of it. TPG's are "SUBJECTIVE" opinions and just a few years ago certain TPG's started to Photograph coins. So, I always have questions about the number on the slab and then do more homework on why it got what it did. I had a question ask of me a few years ago when I had a First Strike TPG 70 "PL" UHR $20 2009 Gold Piece, the question was from the head honcho at one of the TPG's, I told him and he said I never heard of you. I was shocked. I had a 20k coin in my hands and was given a offer at a dealers table from this honcho and knew he was part of this dealer through the history of knowing him. The offer was $11k. I chuckled and told him sorry he didn't know whom I was and told him no thanks. While walking away he didn't know I knew who he was for many years. I went down a few tables and sold that coin for $18,500. I am just wondering if this TPG head honcho was a friend of mine some how I might of got a better offer that day. Here is the kicker, I was told by a friend in the biz last winter my coin sold to another person for $22k. I am fine with that, no paper trail on my behalf and for my original investment of $1,179.00 for the coin, fees at the TPG where it was slabbed, I bought my wife a nice new Jeep Wrangler that she still drives today from the proceeds. Thanks for listening. G P.S. I do own one more TPG 1st Strike 70 "PL" UHR and one 1st Strike 69 "PL" in my collection. I will save them for my kids for the future. Whatever happens to the value will happen, maybe a Home Run in 50 years. I won't be here to see it.
In terms of grading, there really is no 100% right or wrong, because grading is subjective. So I don't think that TPGs could technically get a grade "wrong". As far as mislabeling a proof as a business strike, a wrong variety number, etc...I do not know.
All I know is that I wouldn't trust any variety information on early date large cents. They get very basic things wrong, like reverse of 97 called reverse of 94. I think they are clueless in this area and take the submitters word for it. A clue that they don't really care is the fact they do not guarantee their variety attributions and 90% of early dates come back Detail graded to remove grading guarantees. So essentially, the TPG is a scam for those who THINK they are being protected by a slab which does NOT do what it purports to do (ie guarantee value). Nothing beats knowing for yourself.
