how low will PCGS go?

How hard will PCGS or NGC look at a Fair-2 or Poor-1 coin in order to determine the date?

I have an opportunity to buy an 1877 Indian, well allegedly it is. The date is so faint that I couldn't see the date in the (poor) lighting that I had.

My thought is that I might have it authenticated, but I wonder how far a coin can go before it is returned as "ungradeable"?

I still have the opportunity to buy it for $50, so if it can be authenticated I will buy it and roll dice but if if they may not authenticate it regardless due to condition, then I will keep my $50 and move on to the next thing.

 

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Depends they have the right to charge you extra so roll the dice.

 

charge me extra for what?

Do they look with a microscope for an extra $10? What do you mean they have the right to charge me extra?

 

Basically NGC and PCGS says if the coin doesnt match the thing you paid for lie a certain value, or estimated grade, condition, etc...they can charge you extra to make it even to the right service.

 

That's not really what i am asking.

How hard do they look for the date, etc. in order to authenticate a coin in FR-2 or PO-1?

 

Oh, well im thinking that they wouldnt send it back to you saying it was too hard to determine, it may take some extra time but i would think they would get it down for you.

 

The lowest I can find on Heritage is a single F2 by NGC, but lots of AG-3 by both NGC and PCGS. That sounds to me like you might want to consider using ANACS. They have them down to P-1 on Heritage, but most of those are nets grades.

 

As a general rule, if the date is not readable, it will not grade. There are no fancy x-ray machines or stereo scopes used to determine a date on a coin. Magnification and a strong light source is all that will be used. PO-1's require a partial date that can be confirmed. The only other times will be for coins when there was only one year of issue...like 1964 Kennedy half dollar. If it were wore down to a nub but you can still see Kennedy's profile and an outline of the eagle on the reverse, it can be determined from the metal content, 90% coin silver that it is indeed a 1964 half dollar.

Hope this helps...if you can't see the 77 on the IHC move on to the next one. Hypothetical is not a grading standard.

Happy Collecting

Note: As always, I could be wrong about this whole thing...corrections are welcome.

 

Which makes me wonder if their neat laser fingerprinting machine has the software to intensify certain areas such as date, and run a statistical transformation on any differences in surface heights to visualize a extremely worn date . Fourier transformation have been utilized with confocal laser microscopy and other "nondestructive" laser energy experiments that indicates this could be a possibility. JMHO, out of my pay grade.

And the cost probably more than a AG-3 '77 is worth

 

Definite words of wisdom. :kewl:

 

Fourier transformation is out of your paygrade?

HAH

I doubt it.

 

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Actually, it is the confocal laser microscope that is out of my reach for "hobby projects". The transformations are basically public domain but I need it "software-ized" as the math is too difficult to use independently.

How are you doing Ruben ? Ok I hope! Always nice to see your input.

Jim

 

that answers the exact question I asked, thank you BR549!!!

 

I have a 1918/17 buffalo that I have to use my imagination to see. Trust me, you'd be happier moving on to another, if that's the case with your 1877.

 

Here is another example. Another interesting note is that PCGS and ANACS will slab dateless coins if they can establish the year of the coin by diagnostics. However, NGC requires at least a partial date before they will slab the coin.

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As long as the coin can be identified they'll slab it. So for the 1877 IHC you'll need to at least see enough of the date to make sure. Like others mentioned, some coins can be identified w/o the date, but the 1877 IHC isn't one of them.

With respect to the 1964 Kennedy example mentioned, I believe they will only slab a dateless 1964 Kennedy if the reverse has enough detail left to determine whether or not it is a Denver example. Otherwise the coin can't be properly identifed, since there are two mints that made them that year.

 

Maybe we can do something about that. Does the laser have an API?

 

In mathematics, the Fourier transform (often abbreviated FT) is an operation that transforms one complex-valued function of a real variable into another. In such applications as signal processing, the domain of the original function is typically time and is accordingly called the time domain. The domain of the new function is typically called the frequency domain, and the new function itself is called the frequency domain representation of the original function. It describes which frequencies are present in the original function. This is analogous to describing a musical chord in terms of the notes being played. In effect, the Fourier transform decomposes a function into oscillatory functions. The term Fourier transform refers both to the frequency domain representation of a function, and to the process or formula that "transforms" one function into the other.
There are several common conventions for defining the Fourier transform of an integrable function ƒ : R → C (Kaiser 1994). This article will use the definition:
for every real number ξ. When the independent variable x represents time (with SI unit of seconds), the transform variable ξ represents frequency (in hertz). Under suitable conditions, ƒ can be reconstructed from by the inverse transform:
for every real number x.

 

Hunt,

I think you're mistaken. Neither NGC nor PCGS will charge additional fees for any service that is not authorized by the submitter.

Even if you substantially underestimate the value of a coin in order to submit it at a lower tier charge, they would still be required to contact you for approval to change the submission tier.

Here again, when you specify a minimum acceptable grade, there is no additional charge, other than the normal tier charge, simply because the coin does not meet that minimum grade.

Chris

 

I'll read this later.......cartoons are on.:goofer: