How do you price graded coins flagged as 'Details'?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bernard55, Mar 20, 2023.

  1. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    That may be the case for US coins and auction houses. Keep in mind that most European auction houses deal mostly in raw coins. I'm speaking as a world coin collector, finding a graded coin in a European auction is an anomaly. Any more most of my purchases are coming from outside of the states.
    lardan, bernard55 and lordmarcovan like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest

    to hide this ad.
  3. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I have no simple answer, but here's another data point:


    I documented this coin's saga in a previous thread.

    PCGS says an 1878-P in PR45 went for $1500 last year. They've apparently gone up lately; AU examples were going for less than $1400 in 2018 and 2020. I had several people tell me "what a shame, that would've been a nice coin, but now it's worth melt, minus a little for the hole".

    I put this up on eBay with a BIN of $1200 and Best Offer enabled. I left it up for a few weeks, maybe a couple of months. I got several offers in the $150-300 range, and I think maybe one for $500.

    But eventually that one collector who was assembling a set of holed proof Trade dollars happened across my listing, and made an offer more than half my asking price, about half the going price for a problem-free AU example. We were both happy (although I did feel a little regret letting the coin go).

    So, how much should you ask for a problem coin? It depends -- on the rarity and popularity of the coin, the nature of the damage, and how patient you want to be. I'd say the damage on this coin was pretty extreme, but there were still people who wanted it.
    bernard55 and Randy Abercrombie like this.
  4. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    yes, when I buy it's more art than science... but when I sell I need it to be more science than art... and I'm selling about 50 coins with 'details' issues... :)
    lordmarcovan likes this.
  5. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    I'm curious... do you get them graded? what's the result? I've been using for the last few months and have purchased from auctions in London, Poland, and Munich (all raw, all 15/16/1700 Thalers) and at least half of them have come back from NGC as cleaned. I don't have a large sample size (~10). ...but, I have been very impressed with the ancients I've purchased in these same auctions.
  6. Omegaraptor

    Omegaraptor Gobrecht/Longacre Enthusiast

    This is one I JUST bought and haven’t even gotten in hand yet, but I feel that it is worth posting here.

    3E0AC073-8B58-496D-8D53-FFF65787A4F4.jpeg 3FEB6536-2A5D-4FEF-A361-333C01ADE1AB.jpeg

    This will be my first Draped Bust silver coin. At this sharpness grade, it would cost $800-1000 problem-free. I paid $120, which I would think is a steal.
  7. samclemens3991

    samclemens3991 Well-Known Member

    I have been trying to construct a bidding formula in case I decide to pursue details coins in future auctions.
    The formula I have been applying so far is to take the current CDN retail price and cut in half. Then I either add or subtract 10 to 20 percent based on how I feel about the coins eye appeal and the type of damage.
    Unfortunately I have been too much of a chicken to actually bid on a coin so far. On the other hand I have had a higher than 50% success rate at guessing final results. James
    bernard55 likes this.
  8. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    yes, according to PCGS data, you did pretty well... that's minus 6 grades if you believe this would grade ~10... the range below is wide (and the value has risen as of late from these old prices). I still suspect that on average the price is different based on the type of 'details'.
    lardan likes this.
  9. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    if that is the case you would have paid $400 (minus 4 grades) for the @Omegaraptor quarter and he was able to get it for $120 but it's only 1 data point

    I'm curious -- would your formula be the same for raw coins on auction (versus PCGS/NGC graded details coins)?
  10. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    This is sound advice that I'm going to put to the test. I'm going to list a few at minus 2 grades and use 'best offer' and see how that turns out.
  11. samclemens3991

    samclemens3991 Well-Known Member

    I am afraid that would be impossible to do since the first price point is the CDN.
    bernard55 likes this.
  12. lardan

    lardan Supporter! Supporter

    I would try to keeep it simple if I would attempt this. I would make the price one grade down with a "make offer" allowed. This is a start point to see how it goes. Some people just wouldn't consider a details coin, and those on a budget would. I would also give consideration as to what the details are.
    bernard55 likes this.
  13. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter

    This is a very interesting discussion. I love the possibilities of being able to buy rare coins that you otherwise couldn't touch as some have in this thread.

    As far as pricing, every coin is it's own thing. I have details coins in my collection for various reasons but I try to avoid them at all costs. Reason being the more expensive they are, the harder they'll be to sell. The cheaper they are, the harder they are to sell too because people will opt for the straight graded version instead. It doesn't mean they don't have value, just expect a discount on them.

    Any time I've ever went to trade or sell details graded coins to dealers, it's not good. Most of the time they say, "I can't sell that" or "These are tough to sell". Then I notice a local dealers inventory has about 75% details graded coins and there's little to no discount off of the straight graded price. Regardless, they're a tough sell, even if they look good. The label is everything.

    About all you can do is set a reserve, put them out there and let people bid. See what happens. If reserve not met, do it again next week.
  14. Vess1

    Vess1 CT SP VIP Supporter

    I’ll post this example to show how subjective it all is. I know this isn’t helpful to the original question but may be thought provoking.


    I got this one for my US Type. This coin exhibits fine scratch marks as if it had been cleaned. Maybe there’s die polish lines. Maybe there’s some just from circulating. This coin has no luster remaining. It has the dull flashy look to it but the details are great so I really liked it as a nice example for the type for this one.
    If I had sent this in, I would expect to get a details grade on it. But this one straight graded. AU-53. Had to pay above price guides to get it. Had it been AU details, maybe wouldve expected 20-30% discount off of what I paid. It’s the same coin.
    It looks like it could be an AU-58 but this is likely an example of a net graded coin that they straight graded and just dropped the grade one or two points due to being dipped. Did they do this because it’s a scarcer type? Should it have gotten a straight grade? What’s this coin worth raw? What’s it worth in a details slab? I mean this coin has three different price points depending on its storage device. That’s just the market for you.

    Looking at other MS options for this it seems a lot of them have fine scratches so maybe it is die polish lines. I don’t know. This is one where it had a little over 2 million minted but finding them in attractive higher grades is tough. NGC has only graded 213 higher and some of those have their own problems. There aren’t really thousands to pick from. You’re more so in the hundreds and most of those aren’t for sale.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
    longshot, -jeffB and bernard55 like this.
  15. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    I already give mine away. I think it’s more fun that way. Plus you get more hugs
    Randy Abercrombie and bernard55 like this.
  16. SilverMike

    SilverMike Well-Known Member

    Details coins can be really hard to sell in my experience. What has worked best for me on eBay is to do them as an auction and let the market do its thing. If you start it at 99 cents people don’t want someone else to get a great deal so once you get a few bids it builds from there.

    As a buy it now they can sit for a really long time.
    slackaction1, bernard55 and -jeffB like this.
  17. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    They sure can. But with an auction, you're running the risk that that one person who would be the perfect buyer doesn't come across the auction during the few days it's running. (Or, worse yet, the two perfect buyers who are ready to bid against each other!)
    bernard55 and SilverMike like this.
  18. Chris B

    Chris B Supporter! Supporter

    I have sent some in with mixed results. Sometimes I submit knowing it will likely get a details grade. European houses tend to not mention problems like US ones do. I think they leave it up to you to decide if there is a problem or not. That said, if they describe something as "as minted" or good XF or above you can be pretty confident it's a nice coin.
    bernard55 likes this.
  19. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    That formula is ok for statistics, But once you throw you're bid in all changes.
    Add another 20% for bidding war.
  20. samclemens3991

    samclemens3991 Well-Known Member

    Yes rte, as I said I haven't actually field tested my formula because that would require actually bidding. However, my approach to bidding is to determine the exact amount I am willing to pay and then making that my placer bet.
    On average I win around 20% of the non-detail coins I bid on. My general belief is that every coin has it's appropriate price and the trick is to figure out what that is. Other bidders obviously have different ideas though.
  21. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    Here is the first one I'm going to sell. It's a 1787 1C Fugio Copper "Cent," STATES UNITED, Pointed Rays, 1 over Horizontal Graded XF Details (Environmental Damage) by NGC. Newman 10-T, W-6705, R.5.

    NGC has seen 1 higher (the 55 sold in the auction above) and PCGS has seen 11 at or higher than XF -- Net/Net: it's a hard-to-find coin and Fugios have good demand.

    PCGS has an XF 40 priced at $7,500.

    PCGS prices a 30 at $4750 and a 35 at $6000 (as an additional reference, back in 2019 Stacks sold one as low as $1400 -- wish I was in on that auction; and in 2014 a 55 sold for $25,850).

    CPG prices an XF40 at $3500 retail ($2800 wholesale), a 35 at $3120 and a 30 at $2880


    What would you price this coin at on eBay?

    @lardan (one grade down w/make an offer) would you price it at $6000 (PCGS) or $3500 (CDN) with 'Make an offer'?

    @samclemens3991 I think you are saying you would price the Fugio at $3,500/2 = $1750 * 1.20 = $2,100

    @-jeffB would you offer it $7,500 (PCGS) * .8 = $6,000 and 'Best offer' -- that was how I was interpreting what you mentioned in the above thread.

    or would you price the coin in some other way?

    I have >50 of these choices to make ;-)
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page