How do Cameo coins get their Frosty appearance?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, Jan 9, 2016.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    How do the devices get their frosty appearance? Are the die's device areas treated with some sort of substance? I can't imagine it being any sort of bead blasting, burnishing, etc. done selectively to the devices with a solid die... And, what about the fields, are they simply rouged with heavy polish?

    And if the device areas of the die are given an additive, what sort of substance causes that frosty finish on these cameo and deep cameo coins?
     
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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

  4. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

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  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    A completed die has that finish all over. They're more matte than polished, and for the first certain number of strikes are capable of transferring that frost to the coin until the surface irregularities smooth out from wear. Look at some mid-1880's Carson City Morgans for that in action.

    Every die has the fields polished before being put into production. This turns them into reflective surfaces rather than matte.
     
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  6. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    So it's simply the inherent quality of the newly finished die, without any treatment to the die's device areas? And, subsequent strikes will cause the surface of the die's devices to "wear" and consequently cause less and less frostiness to transfer onto the coin?

    If that's the case, it seems incredible that such frostiness can come about, from raw metal die to raw metal planchet. Unless you mean that's how the finished dies come out - with whatever finishing treatment they're given that causes that frostiness, prior to polishing the die's fields.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    These days, the Mint employs lasers to actually etch the devices of dies to achieve that frost. Back in the Classic days, it could have been done with acid etching.
     
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  8. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    That makes sense. Metal does seem to naturally exhibit that frosty appearance when getting pressed, beyond mere light reflections, such as on this elongated coin below (pic from 'net). The new surface of the devices on the die must be rough.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. jester3681

    jester3681 Exonumia Enthusiast

    Early devices were acid etched. Then sandblasting was used. Now, laser etching is the norm. The fields on the die are then polished and planchets pf the highest quality are struck. Often twice. At slower speeds, and higher pressures. More attention is paid to strike and die setup. So begins the life of a cameo proof.
     
  10. brg5658

    brg5658 Well-Known Member

    You may find this thread I wrote interesting (it's almost 4 years old, but still relevant).

    In brief, from 2006-2011 the US Mint in particular started employing laser etching of dies to get the "frosty" look. IMO, they ruined USA proof coinage. :(

    See the picture compilations I show below...judge for yourself.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    And, here is what the "20" of the "2011" Proof Lincoln Cent looks like up close. Those little "bubbles" are the way that laser engraving achieves the frost look.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2016
  11. jtlee321

    jtlee321 Well-Known Member

    I agree that the new "Laser Engraving" has completely ruined the current generation of Proofs. It looks absolutely atrocious. Just one more way the US Mint has "improved" coinage.
     
  12. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Nice write-up. Thanks for that link.

    I agree - I much prefer the older type. A lot of the details are lost with the heavier and darker "frosty" finish. But, it also appears as if the relief became flatter, in a span of just a few years (even over one year from 2009-2010 the details look flatter); the 3D effect consequently looks diminished, and the more intricate details along with it.
     
  13. Coinchemistry 2012

    Coinchemistry 2012 Well-Known Member

    For which era are you referencing? There are a number of variations in production techniques, especially after 1950, that make these cameo coins more plentiful.
     
  14. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder Supporter

    Working dies were treated with an acid solution, then the flat surfaces were buffed with an emery wheel and fine "flour" emery, yielding frosty devices and mirror like fields until flow lines developed as the dies were used. Planchets were also treated with an acid solution that made them a bit frosty as well.
    see Burdette, "From Mine to Mint," p.399
     
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