How can those anonymous folles be worth 300 USD?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Herberto, Oct 26, 2021.

  1. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    Take a look here:



    Those two coins are the so-called anonymous folles and that NGC-guy estimated them as being 300USD worth each.

    But those coins in that condition are actually very common and they tend to be sold between 30-70 USD as fixed price in stores.

    Can anyone here provides me an explanation why he said they are worth 300USD each?

    Thanks
     
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

  4. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    Its pawn stars lol what do you expect!!!:rolleyes::rolleyes::eek::eek:.
     
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  5. Herberto

    Herberto Well-Known Member

    I dont get it. :)

    The pawner will lose much by overpaying it.

    And that NGC-guy has even overestimated its value 4-5 times.

    Is it all staged?
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  6. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    I'll sell mine for $300! Byzantine anonymous follis class B.jpg
     
  7. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I saw that episode. I just chuckled after that segment was done.
     
  8. Evan Saltis

    Evan Saltis College Dorm Collector Supporter

    This made me feel like an expert on Byzantine coins.

    I don't even own one :eek:

    it's TV, in the end, and most of the stuff goes right over the audiences heads, so for the most part they can get away with this.
     
  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    I've seen pretty heathy prices for these anonymous folles. The demand is quite strong. Now I would not buy anything through Pawn Stars or any other venue that is rife with promotion and overpricing.

    The auction activity for anonymous coinage reflects the enthusiasm that collectors of this subspecialty of Byzantine bronze coinage. Truly well struck and attractive examples are really few and far between.

    That's a really nice follis, strike-wise and patina-wise. $300? Probably not, but certainly not a budget box coin either!

    Here's a high grade example purchased through MA Shops a few years ago.

    Basil II and Constantine VIII, 976-1028
    AE follis, Type A2

    8.17 grams

    D-Camera Basil II,Constantine VIII. Follis class A2, 976-1028, 8,17 g MA Shops 4-2019 9-12-21.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  10. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    I really can't disagree. What David said is very accurate, a worn face = $10, a perfect face many multiples of that.
     
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  11. catadc

    catadc Well-Known Member

    Very clear face can mean 300 USD+. The price of these coins is 90% driven by the quality of the face. Have a look on CNG's history for A2 anonymous follis.
    The class B above is a budget coin. The A2 above i suspect is in the 300+ range?
     
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  12. robinjojo

    robinjojo Supporter! Supporter

    You're almost on the button for my A2 follis. It cost me $305.32 in 2019. After shipping and a Paypal fee (!) the total was $327.76. I think this coin could sell for $400 or more (if slabbed - never, while I own it), especially at auction, where things, as we all know, can get a little crazy.
     
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  13. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Supporter! Supporter

    Don't know anything about Byzantine coins and their prices. But one thing's for sure; the "NGC guy" is David Vagi...and I'm 100% sure he did his homeworks before coming with some estimations. We have a member here on CT who was on pawn star a few years ago, and he explained that when they say "we'll call a friend" to help us, it is all staged. The expert just doesn't enter the store 10 minutes later and identify the coin and a price... he has time to do his research...so if Vagi says 300$, I wouldn't bet against him !
     
  14. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Wow! A great coin with Jesus?

    I'd pay thousands!

    (says a newb to the field or a random biblically focused person)
     
    +VGO.DVCKS likes this.
  15. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Pretty good examples. I would say around $80 from what I could see. To be a $1000 anonymous follis, it would probably have to be a high grade Class F, H, or J, not an A. In the grade shown in the video, one of those would easily be $500 coins.
     
  16. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    I'm no expert in this area. But I have looked at a lot of Jesus/Anonymous folles dealer listings.
    For the Jesus/Anonymous coins in the Pawn Stars video, David Vagi's estimate of $300 per coin, seems highly possible, to me.
    However, in the Pawn Stars video, the photos of the coins are low quality, so it is difficult for me, to really see, what their condition is. However, even with the low quality photos, the coins seem pretty nice, to me. The face of Jesus seems to be mostly there. The patina seems nice.
    David Vagi was able to hold the coins in his hands, and examine them.
    Like David Vagi said, and like @robinjojo and @David@PCC and @catadc said above, Jesus/Anonymous folles in nice condition are few and far between.
    The value of a Jesus/Anonymous follis goes up quickly, for nice examples. I often see nice examples, in the $200 to $500 range.
    The @robinjojo example is in excellent condition, and it seems to have a nice black patina. I agree with @robinjojo that a dealer could perhaps sell it slabbed for $400 or more.
    Here's my example.
    Jesus_1028_AD_obverse_and_reverse_3_best_vertical_800_pixels.jpg
    Basil II or Constantine VIII 40 nummus AE follis. 1023 AD to 1028 AD. Constantinople mint. Class A3. Sear 1818. 28 mm. 9.27 grams.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  17. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Supporter! Supporter

    The folles posted by robinjojo & sand are of exceptional quality & are valuable coins. The follis pictured below sold at CNG Coin Shop for $875.00, & it was slabbed by NGC MS, Strike 5/5, Surface 4/5.

    CNG follis.jpg
    Anonymous Follis, c. AD 1020-1063, 26 mm, 10.63 gm, 6 h. CNG Coin Shop #523687.

    The follis pictured below cost me $429.00 at auction 3 years ago, & I have no regrets paying that sum of money for the coin :smuggrin:.
    2101304-005 AK Collection.jpg


     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
  18. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian Supporter Dealer

    Well-struck and well-preserved examples of the anonymous follis are rare and highly desirable, especially to collectors focusing on Christian iconography. You wont find many examples in the condition that Al Kowsky and sand posted.

    A word of caution: these types get doctored. If you're in the market for an example with a sharp bust, look closely for signs of tooling and smoothing.
     
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  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    The question to me is how much difference would the market make if these off centered examples also where full legend and balanced. Certainly the face of Christ is the prime consideration but, to get into the high dollar class, I would expect a crisp 'Emmanuel' and balance.

    That is a small one which those who allow the distinction would call and A3 like the sand coin. I realize that there are those who disallow A3 altogether but I still would value a fully detailed (nose, obverse legend, reverse including BOTH decorations) that weighs 15g+ above a sub-10g coin all other factors being equal. My example below was $5. I regret its centering more than the ribbon shaped hole but agree that wear is what makes it a $5 coin.
    rz0495fd2416.jpg

    Does anyone have a fully detailed coin with good weight, good centering and full border of dots on both sides? I, most certainly, never will! Since relatively few sales are made to people who have handled the coin, price does not follow weight as it might have when A2 was used to denote heavy standard coins. Facial detail is prime but there are many other things to be considered. This one has everything but weight unless you are picky about the doubling and the tight reverse. It went for $1265 + add ons in 2009 (up from $650 +10% in 2000). Imagine what a similar 16g coin would bring. Perfection is not something easy to find if it even exists.
    https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=133065
    [​IMG]

    There is also the fact that some of these coins show some degree of overstriking and that is not popular in the high end market. I'm sure everyone is tired of seeing my 10.88g, full nose follis (OK, the nose belongs to Gordian III rather than Christ but it is a nose). :happy:

    rz0505fd3399both.jpg

    We pay our money and pick our faults.
     

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  20. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    @dougsmit I never get tired of seeing that overstrike!
     
  21. John Anthony

    John Anthony Ultracrepidarian Supporter Dealer

    @dougsmit I'll take the overstrike over fleur de coin any day!
     
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