Help on Draped Bust Dollars?

Considering placing a bid on one of these Draped Bust dollars. Have not seen them in real life yet - just through the photos.

As far as I have analyzed, the:
- 1799 is a Normal date, 7x6 stars obverse, no berries
- 1800 is Normal date, ? number of arrows, AMERICAI

Does anyone have any comments, preferences, grading or price opinions regarding these great pieces of American numismatics?

Thanks for any inputs!








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The imagery is insufficient for any opinion on surface originality, something which must be factored into your thinking. The 1800 especially, though, showing crud clinging only to the insides of the A's and a couple other places, must be assumed to have been cleaned. This also makes determining authenticity difficult; if you buy based on these images, the quality of the seller must come in to play.

The 1799 is B-11, in a very late die state with heavy reverse cracking. The lines on the reverse from the second S to the rim, and from the eagle's right wing to the T in UNITED, must be assumed to be scratches. Grade is F12-ish.

The 1800 AMERICAI is B-19, the more common of the two AMERICAI types. About the same grade as the other (although the wear is kind of uneven); the rim dings detract.

It'd be tough to contemplate paying full retail (maybe $1000 for the 1799, and $1200 for the 1800) based on these images. Even if trusted authentic I'd want them both for considerably less than that.

 

Thank you very much for your analyze and comments. I will definitively put your points down as part of my consideration.

And really, for those very reasons you are pointing out, I am a bit hesitant to place a bid on either of these two. This would be my first Draped Bust dollar and since it's a pretty heavy investment, I would like to get one with some surface originality and one I would really enjoy.

The coins themselves are offered by a respected and trusted dealer/auction house and I'm having a hard time doubting the authenticity. They are offered at the price levels you are indicating + auction fees of 15-20%.

I am planning on seeing them in real life, so I'll see how that affects my considerations [emoji4]


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Excellent; it's inappropriate to draw firm conclusions based on one set of plainly insufficient images. There is a real possibility that you'll find either perfectly acceptable and as original as one might expect of coins which did their full duty in commerce. Predicated, of course, on your confidence in your ability to evaluate the coins appropriately.

Forced to choose between the two, I would pick the 1799 as of greater interest. It's a very late die state although of a more common variety than the 1800, although there is a yet-later stage where crumbling develops under the eagle's chin (check for that feature in person; I see it beginning on this one). There cannot be too awful many at that stage of the die's life. Q. David considers the survivor number to be between 600-1100, with most of them being later die stages.

It's of added interest to me that this one (along with B-12, the previous use of the reverse die) have no reverse berries. This reverse was used with 4 different obverses (one of them twice), and during that time the berries were lapped off of the die.

 

Went to the dealer yesterday, but all the auction material was locked down for the day, so I'll try again next week. But got to see and hold a fantastic Massachusetts Pine Tree Shilling at least, which is also on the dream list... [emoji3]

Also I am not so familiar with the detailed Draped Bust Dollar references - like the B12 etc you mentioned. Any suggestions where to read (online resource) more about the varieties?

Thanks



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I'm sorry; I neglected to link you as I normally do in threads like this. Here's all you need on the subject of Early Dollars:

http://www.earlydollars.org/index.asp

They have a wonderful attribution guide:

http://www.earlydollars.org/wizardhome.htm

 

Based on the pictures, I prefer the 1799.

 

Thanks for the link! Haven't seen this site before and it's great. Love the concept and wished they had it for other series too - like large cents which so many varieties. Closest I have seen is www.usacoinbook.com.


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Call me old fashioned but I think you'll have much more luck attributing these coins with a book. Volume one of the Bowers reference Silver Dollars of the U.S. is in the library of the TPGS's.

Unfortunately, some of the information on Trade dollar Types was obsolete before the book was published.

 

Between the two, I'd pick the 1799. The large mark on the breast of the eagle on the 1800 is a major detractor. Both of them appear to have orginal-ish surfaces (they may have been washed a long time ago, but the color appears correct for old-time patina). I also like the smoother appearance of the obverse surfaces on the 1799, compared to the blotchiness of the 1800.

Are there better examples out there? Sure. Are these acceptable? Yeah.

 

Hehe. I don't think you are old fashioned. I prefer good books the most, but great online resources like the one posted are also wonderful supplements. I see that the online resources are more flexible when it comes to photos especially when comparing different varieties. I bought Bowers Half and Large cent book and it's great, but I'm also using e.g. Usacoinbook.com because they have good photo comparisons [emoji4]


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Call me new fashioned but I really like to read TDNs take on dollars if he has posted in a thread before on CU given the status of his collections when possible

 

You could also read everything you want to know about Trade Dollars on this website: http://www.tradedollarnut.com/

Not sure if that is the same guy, but I think it is.

 

1800 is a higher grade, but a weaker strike. There are also rim hits to consider.

1799 is a lower grade, but a better strike.

Surface originality (or lack thereof) seems to be the same on both, so no advantage there. They are both market-acceptable, though.

If they are both the same price (and uncertified), I would buy the 1800, send it in to get a VF technical grade, sell it, and use the money to either buy the 1799 with money left over or a nicer 1799.

 

This is a great place to get info on Trade dollars. However, I have heard that there are some SIGNIFICANT changes that have been reported regarding Hub Types. A member of the LSCC is writing a book to.

 

I believe that is his site or at the very least he contributes to it. If I had his seated dollar collection I would never leave my house. A large part of me wants to try and get down to the FUN show next year to see the exhibit of early dollars and the SP dollar he is putting on with PCGS.

 

Ended up not having the time to see these in person - so skipped bidding on these this time. They were sold for approx $1300 and $1600 for the 1799 and 1800 respectively..

I'll be on the lookout for the next opportunity to own a nice Draped Bust Dollar

Thanks for all inputs!


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