Help Identifying 1972-P "Doubled Die" Cents - Die #2 and Die #4

Hi All,

I have two BU 1972-P "Doubled Die" Cents that I believe are Die #4 Varieties! However, I cannot find a single Marker on either of them for either the Die #2 or Die #4 Varieties with the exception of one which appears to have a very minute cud on the rim West of "LIBERTY"! They both have a medium to strong CCW spread on "IN GOD WE TRUST", most of "LIBERTY" and mainly on the "2" of the Date with what appears to be a slight spread on the "7" of the Date.

Are there any other known Markers for both Varieties that are not published on Coneca's Website and in the "CherryPicker's Guide to Rare Die Varieties" that might help me identify which Variety I have? Could these be very Early Die State minted Die #4 Varieties that lack the typical markers (i.e. "Rim Cuds West of LIBERTY", "Small die breaks on rim from K-8:30 to 9:30", "Numerous die scratches East-West above and below the building", "Die scratch Southeast from lower Left N of UNITED" and "Die scratches East-West through 7th, 8th, and 9th bays") which would be expected and show up somewhat later in the minting process after the dies have been removed from use, ground, polished or buffed then put back into use? Except for the possible minute cud on the rim to the West of LIBERTY, both of these coins are blemish free from any Markers whatsoever that would have been made from dies that have been used and then have been ground, polished or buffed and put back into use! Could these two coins be from new, fresh and unblemished dies?

Note: One coin has a few minor scratches and slight dings typical from handling, bag marks or friction with other coins. The other coin has the same but also has some thin scratches across the Memorial Building where someone drug the point of a knife blade or other object back and forth across the area. However, none of these scratches and dings came from dies!

Any help and information would be appreciated!


Thanks...Frank