HELLO! .... Two (2) Very Necessary Questions to Pose To You All re "VALUE".........

OK....here are the questions:

1. Does a "Green Bean" from CAC add value to a "valuable" coin? And .... If so....What Percentage (%) do you believe it adds to the base value?

2. re: Lincoln Cents - How much (percentage or $$$'s) does a 1909-S vdb's value change say between a MS65BN and a MS65RD?

There you have my two "probing-the-value-reasons" questions of the day.

Thanks, guys.......you always feed me with so much VALUABLE information.

 

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1. ..Should it? No. Does it? yes.. A green bean just means that CAC agrees with the grade assigned to the coin.
2. http://www.pcgs.com/prices/pricegui...&sp=1&c=46&title=lincoln+cent+(wheat+reverse)

 

mynamespat - Not sure what you are showing me with the PCGS price/value chart. Are you stating the "+" sign equates to "added-value" for CAC?

 

Actually I think it has to do with your BN and RD question...check out the tabs at the top of the link.

 

No, that's how you find out the value difference of a coin. Cent values are seperated into Red (RD), Brown-red (RB) and brown (BR) rows. The columns are the grades. Find 1909-s row, follow to 64 column; boom, value. The price guide is for quickly gauging the value of a coin and tends to be higher than realized market value in most cases.

 

I disagree in part. Should it? Yes. Does it? Yes.

Many believe if the ANA's Certification Service in CO would have hired skilled, well-regarded professional dealers (such as the people who founded PCGS and NGC) from the start and graded coins commercially to market standards, they should have captured the entire grading market under the ANA banner and very possibly made it both unnecessary and not profitable for any other "new" grading service (PCGS, NGC) to challenge them.

By the same token, if the top two TPGS's were not so deeply connected with commercial interests, they could have "held the line" to the strict standards they had at the start making a service such as CAC unnecessary.

 

Just say this, "I'm going to go get the grade of my graded coin graded," with a straight face. I dare you.

 

1) I'm of two minds on this. In the market sense, it would be silly to not realize that CAC beans do help bring higher bids. They are the market's "second opinion", maybe third. In the more meta sense, is not the raw coin, the slabbed coin, and the beaned slabbed coin, still the SAME COIN? I maintain if it's the same coin, it has the same value. Ultimately the only opinion that counts is mine when I'm buying - not Salzberg's, and not Albanese's. Just because a slabbed coin doesn't have a bean, doesn't mean it's not superior - it probably was never sent to CAC. The vast majority of what I buy is raw. I get hundreds slabbed by NGC and I have never even once sent any coin to CAC.

2) Scroll down the linked table to the three rows of 1909-S VDB listings. Your answer is there. One row each for RD RB and BR. Don't assume the percentage difference is constant. It's not.

 

If the coin was graded correctly in the first place I would not need to choke on that sentence you dared me to say. IMO, the majority are graded correctly; but we all know there are over graded coins lurking in the market or locked in collections.

I think CAC is a great idea. As a matter of fact, I know a professional grader/authenticator who was planning a similar service in 1989 to certify true MS coins from the typical sliders that were being slabbed as MS by PCGS & NGC - he even had the sticker's for his service produced. He was hired by NGC and that ended that. Today, anyone that counts accepts those AU's as low MS's.

 

so... let me get this straight...

They are sliders and you refer to them as AUs, but they ARE MS???

This is as bad as the TPGs!

The TPG grade is a grading opinion. CAC is another opinion. These are both opinions that the market recognizes, but whether the market accepts the opinions or not, they are only opinions and grading is still subjective. To say that a grade is wrong (when it is close) is just a difference of opinion.

And IMHO, one who can tell the difference between a slider AU and an MS coin is an astute collector with a keen eye, not a mistaken bumpkin who doesn't understand the TPG standard.

 

Sliders are those small hamburgers, right?

 

yup they're usually consumed after a night of heavy drinking... which could explain why they're always graded wrong.

 

The part about Cac that puzzles me is that I have seen several people explain what a Cac coin is. The prevalent answer I see is that a Green Bean coin is a coin that is a half step grade ( Slabbed as a 40 meets 45 standard) off.
A Gold Bean coin is a full step in grade off (Slabbed as a 40 meets standard of a 50).
I have no war with Cac. I even own a few Cac coins. But I am baffled by claims that Cac coins are suppose to be the Gold standard of grading if they are inherently mis-graded?
That said, if I was buying investment grade coins i would buy those for their perceived value.

 

The part about Cac that puzzles me is that I have seen several people explain what a Cac coin is. The prevalent answer I see is that a Green Bean coin is a coin that is a half step grade ( Slabbed as a 40 meets 45 standard) off.
A Gold Bean coin is a full step in grade off (Slabbed as a 40 meets standard of a 50).
I have no war with Cac. I even own a few Cac coins. But I am baffled by claims that Cac coins are suppose to be the Gold standard of grading if they are inherently mis-graded?
That said, if I was buying investment grade coins i would buy those for their perceived value.

 

Actually, CAC says on their website that green bean means accurately graded and a gold bean means that the coin is undergraded.

 

Mike, I'm pretty sure you know the difference between an AU and an MS coin. I'm sure you have developed your own personal standards. I'm also pretty sure that you must have read the grading guides, numismatic publications, and have possibly even attended seminar lectures stating the fact that coins that were formerly graded AU are now graded in the low Mint State ranges.

I also believe that you will admit that the opinion of a market maker/dealer/grader such as James Halperin or John Albanese carries a little more weight than the "subjective opinion" of you, me, astute collectors, and bumpkins.

That's why I probably don't need to comment further on parts of your post (directed at who?) above.

 

And they're wrong.

Q: How many legs does a dog have if you call the tail a leg?
A: Four, just because you call it a leg doesn't make it one
------ A. Lincoln

Mike is right-

A CAC Green bean means the coin is solid for the grade. They divide coins into A, B and C (A = Best) and As & Bs get beans. Cs don't.

A CAC Gold bean means the coin is solid for the next higher grade.

So your XF40 Gold bean would be solid (green) at XF45.

 

I thought CAC was only supposed to certify the top ~10% of coins for a given grade. We divide coins into A, B, and C for the grade, ok.Are you telling me that 'A's' and 'B's' make up the top 10% of coins for a given grade and 90% of every grade is a bottom of the rung 'C'?

 

CAC is basically a second opinion on the grade. How much of a premium, if any, is justified is up to the buyer. But don't let the asinine premiums asked for by some eBay sellers--and some dealers---lead you astray.

 

Well, closer to 15% (so I'm told) sticker. As for bottom of the rung, no, but average for the grade? Yes, therefore a C level grade or lower.