Guess the NGC grade ; 1875 Twenty Cent Piece

Well this nice example came my way today , a pleasent surprise for myself & the seller

So the question is what did NGC grade this as , what designation is on the slab ?

It is in a problem free holder , not details graded.

I'll reveal the answer tomorrow, post below if you would like to play along & humor me.

 

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I'll go with PF64.

 

PF65
A stunning example too.

 

I guess this thread would have gotten more attention if I would have flamed NGC in the title

OMG look how bad NGC messed this up ,how could they have gotten this soooo wrong ???

But I digress, The grade that NGC assigned was MS62 .

MS62 ? Really, they did get it wrong it is a proof as both of you guys guessed .

I'll be resubmitting it obviously & will post the results here when it comes back to the few that were interested.

Thanks for the replies.

 

I don't believe the coin is proof strike - if just has prooflike surfaces.

I think an old dip also made the cameo a bit more pronounced and cleaning the surfaces to made them appear "glossy" (like a proof coin).

 

If you resubmit to NGC, I suspect it will come back in a details holder because of excessive hairlines in the fields (cleaning?). Based on the images, I can't put an MS vs. PF label on the coin.

 

Pictures can be decieving, the 1st one that shows the cameo in the slab is not how the coin looks in hand.

I have no doubt that it is a proof ,there are die markers on the coin that only proofs have .

It will not be going to NGC but to PCGS.
. I also believe that it will go into problem free holder & will come back PF62 but with out the cameo designation .
The reverse shows the cameo quite a bit more & the hairlines are light enough to be acceptable for the lower PF grade IMO.
I guess we will see.

 

It is a beautiful coin, but I agree. I'd leave it exactly where it is, as the pictures as posted make it look very much as if it is a MS details harshly cleaned (polished) coin, made to look proof like. I'd not take the chance with all of those hairlines. Looks cleaned to me. If you send it to PCGS, it will most probably come back in a details slab.

 

I increased the contrast to make the point, but how do you explain the harsh hairlines in the obverse right field?

 

Polishing the coin

 

LOL you guys are funny , you do know hairlines are allowed on older proof coins right?

Many of those lines that are seen in the magnified picture are not hairlines from improper handling or especially cleaning. I am not saying there are not hairlines from contact marks or slide marks , but cleaning I'll say no.

Many of the lines in the fields are actually die polish lines that are showing with the contrast mixed with a few light hairlines.

I will put up a few other pics from PCGS PF63 & PF62 coins to compare with.

Not that Im trying to convince any of you what it is or will be ,I know what it is . Just was sharing NGC's labeling mistake.

 

I don't think it was a mistake. NGC was charitable with it, in not calling it details. It is a cleaned MS coin that looks proof like. We shall see when you get it back from PCGS. I have seen this happen a thousand times.

 

Bedford, I wish you the best with your submission. It would be of more use to ask questions like the one you asked with decent photos. You realize we are going from pretty sub-par images, yes? Based on the images only, this coin is impaired. I'll trust your judgment based on in-hand inspection...

 

Ah, I still like it.

Congrats on your acquisition

 

So were Proofs struck with Business strike dies ? If they are or were stuck that way other people who are smarter than you & I would have already have made that discovery I bet.

I will now show you just 3 of the PUP's to compare that this has been struck with a proof die. You can see this from the curved line in the shield & the lines in the dress & foot. There are also matching die polish lines as well.

If that is not enough proof I dont know what to say .

Maybe I have a discovery piece , that would be awesome too.

I dont care what the grade is or **** if it will even be probelm free, my issue is that it is a Proof that was labeled as a Business strike.

I have seen a few things a thousand times as well & I'll put this one on that list too.
I know what I know & I guess you just keep thinking what you think.

 

I saw the coin in hand and it is my honest opinion that it is a PR-63 coin. Yes there is some hairlines but try finding examples that have no hairlines. Like Bedford suggested Older proof coins can allow for some hairlines. The coin in question looks remarkable! Congrats on a nice one bud!

 

You obviously know what you're doing, so don't worry about what a few others may or may not think. You've offered a free education with this thread, but if someone does not want to take what you have given, that is their choice. I was not sure of the markers for this issue, so I greatly appreciate the chance to add to my records without having to do the legwork myself. Thank you.

Just curious, but did you acquire this as a PR or as labeled?

 

When the customer gave this to me I was thrown back by the look of the coin & confused by the label that NGC had given it. We sat down together & I went over the coin comparing it to other examples.I first noticed the die maker on the shield & after looking through a few proofs it was obvious to both of us that it was indeed a proof.There were no Business strike example we could find with the same finish or die markers. We agreed on an exchange based upon proof values. Thanks for reading.

 

Good Luck with the coin, there are some people that are easily swayed by what a TPG puts on a slab. There wouldn't be a crackout game if the TPG's were perfect.