GTG & its Possible Restoration Grade: 1942 Washington 25C Proof

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, May 4, 2017.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Can you guess the grade on this 1942 Washington 25C proof by PCGS? And, if submitted to PCGS for Restoration services, what do you think it'll grade as? It has a serious hit to its eye appeal, so I think that it would at least be graded the same.

    However, I'd also think that it should or even must grade higher based on the combination of two factors: 1. Eye appeal is a factor in PCGS's grading criteria, albeit much smaller than the other criteria, and 2. subconscious comparison of before and after results.

    For this second point, the graders may not see the restored coin until much later, after they've already gone through hundreds or thousands of coins. But if they have info on the coin's previous grade and the "before" image, then I'd think that it would influence their grading. Access to this info may or may not be against their best practices to make grading more independent. Yet, I can see that not having access to previous grades would make PCGS appear less consistent (and would a lower grade be subject to their re-submission guarantee?).

    Thanks in advance!


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  3. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    The carbon spots are a bit unappealing, but I'm afraid that they may be better than if they were removed. The result of carbon spot removal leaves the coin totally washed out (in my experience anyway). I've stopped sending coins in for restoration because I seldom like the results. This isn't to say that proper restoration can't be done, I just haven't had much luck with the process from either NGC or PCGS.
     
  4. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    What if put in a note and say to remove only the hazy surface? If the carbon spots come off, then great. Otherwise, they should just leave it at that.

    If I do send a coin in for PCGS Restoration, then I'd probably put a note like that in big bold letters.
     
  5. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    Given the skritchiness of the obverse device, I can't help but think that 63-64 ought to be the absolute ceiling for this coin. The bust looks almost like a Business Strike from that standpoint, and the reverse is certainly having moments of its' own.

    We don't know the nature of what's being referred to as "carbon spots;" they likely are but the same process which removes the haziness might also be that same applied to those spots anyway, so asking to differentiate between them might be useless. I'm thinking the haze could be removed in near-entirety, and the resulting coin would be worth a one-step grade improvement, aside the skritchiness.

    There is what looks like big ole' doubling in the N of IN. Is that characteristic of the design?
     
  6. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I think the "N" is a characteristic of the design, after looking at other examples on PCGS's page.

    For the carbon spot removal, I was thinking that it would require more intense restoration efforts of probably the same process to remove the haziness. So, if they just use less intense effort, then the haziness may be removed while any carbon spots may remain, which is fine with me. If both are removed, then that'll be the best case scenario, but I'm erring on the side of caution as I do hear horror stories of conservation work, just as Kirkuleez mentions.
     
  7. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    That's in the back of my head, too.
     
  8. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I've heard that they actually use dip (?). If so, I'm also going to make a note in bold to shorten the exposure time of conservation, to make it more clear that the focus should be to simply remove say, at least 80% of the haze then they should stop.
     
  9. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Leave it be.
     
  10. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It don't work that way. They decide what if anything they will do to the coin.
    I would not have this coin worked on.
     
  11. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Anyone else want to guess what this coin graded as?

    It's part of the reason why it's so tempting for me to get it restored.
     
  12. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    I'll throw out 61 as a guess, and I'd be thinking the exact same thing you are if I'm right. :)
     
  13. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    hmm... 62?
    How much will the conservation and re-grade cost? How much would the value increase if it gained a grade or two?
     
  14. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    PCGS charges $20 for a re-grade and conservation is I think $23.

    If it downgrades, then the grading fee is... $0?

    The value increase would give the answer away :)

    I'll say this much... I was surprised by the grade and I snatched it up.

    It was a bargain to boot, too.
     
  15. heavycam.monstervam

    heavycam.monstervam Outlaw Trucker & Coin Hillbilly

    Haha
    i bet it was
    :jimlad:
     
  16. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Yes, but wait 'til you see this grade ;) :

    PR-66
     
  17. heavycam.monstervam

    heavycam.monstervam Outlaw Trucker & Coin Hillbilly

    Oh wow youre good:woot:

    Im in the restoration camp now, if there even was one and hopefully they wont blame mechanical error if u try 4 a guarantee
     
    iPen likes this.
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Free the Cartwheels!

    You could offer that as proof PCGS is ADA compliant and employs the blind.

    All seriousness aside, technical merit does not support the grade, and I'm forced to imagine it turned in the holder.

    And when did they enable "Spoiler" tags, or are we just getting around to noticing it?
     
  19. mynamespat

    mynamespat Well-Known Member

    Maybe it was a Monster Rainbow petri dish toner that turned...
     
  20. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's over-graded, so I'm wondering what their Re-submission guarantee covers lol. There's a lot of noise randomly distributed. Unless they're die polish lines, I'm concerned that conserving it will yield a better looking coin, but at the cost of a significantly lower slab grade.

    Here's a pic of another one graded by PCGS as PR-66 via HA. There are huge long marks on Washington's chin. Yet I have a PR-65 one as well, and that one looks much better in terms of noise, so it seems like something is amiss here. I know there's more leeway with scratches with respect to proof coins, but these two examples seem to be stretching it. Unless they're die polish marks?

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  21. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's integrated into this forum as far as default button options. I manually typed up the BB code for the Spoiler in some other threads, so as to not influence others' opinions with my grade. :)
     
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