Digger needs help! I have just reviewed my Redbook criteria for grading Washington Quarters. Then I looked at my quarters and graded them according to the Redbook standards. First: I disagree with that grading criteria for the following reason. In EF-40, wear is confined to the center of the eagles breast. Yet in f-12 fine, tiny feathers are supposed to be visible on the breast. Seems logical that as the grading lowers, the wear spot would increase and tiny feathers would not be visible at all. That brings me to my dilemma,since I just looked at several Quarters on ebay and found them to be graded by the seller in XF/AU. mine are the same if not better than those and I only graded mine as vf-20. Problem number 2: The Quarters on ebay are 1943 S and described as scarce double dies. My Redbook does not show any listing for DDO that year. Are these sellers lying or what? The coins are indeed doubled as far as I can tell, but it appears to be machine doubling, not double dies.Am I wrong? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39462&item=3954155019&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=39462&item=3953288143&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Your opinions please! Quote from one seller below "A very nice looking 1943-S Washington Quarter that a very scarce double die obverse variety. Bold doubling can be seen on the motto, date and liberty. This is by far the nicest one of these d/d's that I have owned. I would grade this coin a nice XF/AU with a light cleaning that is not distracting.."
There is a 1943S doubled die obverse listed in Breen (#4319). The doubling shows plain on motto, date, and "LIBERTY". There is an article in March 1986 issue of The Numismatist about this variety. According to my Breen (dated 1988) this DDO is very rare. As far as the grading goes, you and I are in the same boat. I have always followed ANA Grading Standards. I have a good friend who follows Photograde. The standards for both of these are comparable. Between us, we have not disagreed on a grade yet that I can remember. The XF coin in the auction, I see as VF20. I see the ANACS graded AU as EF40. Although I have a tremendous amount of respect for ANACS, I do not agree with the grade assigned and would see this as a prime example of "buying the coin, not the slab". I would not pay AU money for that coin. Please understand that this is my opinion. But I have seen way too many Washington quarters that have been overgraded. You are not alone in how you feel
Hi, Digger. I would say that the Red Book only offers a brief description of grading. For a more detailed description on how to grade US coins, I would suggest reading the A.N.A.'s "Grading Standards". When grading coins, such as Washington quarters, you must keep in mind that some issues are typically weakly struck, whereas others are commonly fully detailed. Therefor, it isn't uncommon for two coins, in the same condition, to have very different amounts of detail. In reference to the auction, I would tend to agree that the doubling is probably mechanical. There are known 1942-S DDO varieties, but their descriptions don't seem to match the coin in question. Besides, I would want a good, clear close-up picture before I would say for sure. And $5.50 to send a single, common-date coin First Class? Forget it! In addition, I believe the cleaning is distracting, but that is just my opinion, and it may not matter to someone else. Just to be clear, the varieties, listed in the Red Book, are but a tiny fraction of what's out there. They receive all the attention, though, because the Red Book is such a popular publication.
I am looking through my copy of PCGS Official Guide To Grading And Counterfeit Detection and, following these guidelines, the coins in the auctions look to be graded accurately. I still don't agree with the grades, but at least I can see where they came from. Here is a quick summary: VG8/10 - coins will have only slight hair detail with face and neck very worn. Rims may touch the tops of hte lettering. Only about half of the wing feathers will still have detail and the detail will be incomplete. F12/15 - hair detail will show only in deeply recessed areas. The top part of hte head will be worn nearly smooth, as will the face and neck. Only the inner wing feathers will still show detail, as the breast, leg, and outer wing feathers are worn smooth. VF20/35 - slight hair detail but some areas will be very flat. The face and neck show wear across their entire surfaces. The reverse will have flat breast and leg feathers, with some of the inner wing feathers now slightly incomplete, and the outer feathers showing little detail. EF40/45 - flatness will show on nearly all of the hair curls with the curls around the ear being noticeably flat. The face and neck will exhibit wear, as will the field. Cupro-nickel alloy Washington quarters have much more detail than the silver alloy quarters. The breast and leg feathers are now flat, with slight flatness on the outer edges of hte wing feathers and slight wear on the inner feathers. AU50/53 - coins have more noticeable friction in the hair at the top of the head, the cheek, the hair around the ear, and the neck. More wear will be noted on the breast, legs, and outer edges of the wings than the field. AU55/58 - wear is seen on the hair at the top of the head, the cheek, the hair around the ear, and the neck. Reverse wear is easily seen on the breast first with slight friction noted for hte legs and edges of the wings. I apologize for any typos. I was just going to give a summary, but actually most of it is verbatim.
very informative responses from both of you, and well appreciated. I was tired last night and a bit confused when I started that thread. I do have a price list for that coin in the Redbook but no picture or description of the doubling and the grading does not go lower than ef-40 in this book. Looks like I will need to expand my library, I really liked PCGS guidelines, much more detailed. Thanks Susanlynn and Jody
Washington Quarters Hi Digger, Let me throw my two cents in here. First of all you did exactly the right thing by asking the forum members. Thay have given you very sound advice and I agree with them. Let me expand on their response a little. When grading a coin NEVER focus on only one grading area. Study the coin by all grading areas. Learn about any quirks in the production or wear traits of the coin. If you say "The Liberty is not strong enough" and pass on the coin or assign it a grade you could be making a mistake. The Washington quarters have problems in that area. It seems that the branch mints struck better than the Philly mint. As an overall view. The Eagle on the reverse, even though its an important grading poit, not always struck up fully. As the die worn the tiny feathers on the center of the breast wouldn't even show in a lot of cases. If you transfer this to a circulated version you have a problem. What was orignally a weak strike now appears to be wear. If you concentrate only on the Eagles breast and proceed to grade it accordingly your going to make an error. That's why the feathers on the sides of the breast will show when the center appears worn. My suggestion is that you use and compare all the points of grading together and then come up with an overall grade. Don't pay too much attention to what the sellers on Ebay grade their coins unless you have done business with them or they have a nice photograph to grade by. Remember they are trying to make a profit. They may grade more liberal than conserative. catman
My thoughts exactly! Very good advice Catman,I only wish that I could reference all I need to from this forum. I currently only have the Redbook, I will learn what I can by surfing the net, but I think I will have to purchase my own books eventually. Is there a compilation of category specific advice available here? Other than the frequently asked questions, I think it would be nice to have more detailed advice handy to forum members. Your 2 cents worth is welcome any time. I was not trying to end this thread so quickly when I replied to susanlynn and Jody. The forum has been so busy lately that I thought the thread might disappear from the first page unless I acted quickly. Maybe it's just my imagination though. Digger
Digger, You know digger if I was just getting started here's what I would do. I would buy four books. The Red Book, The Photograde, The ANA Guide and a real expensive one called "Walter Breen's Enclyclopedia of United States and Colonial Coins". I would study these and most of all make sure what they contained. Don't memorize them just know what kind of information each book can provide you with. Store these books in a place you can get to them for reference. I have been collecyting for 45 years an am still going to these books daily. After you study these books you will have an idea of a series you would like to collect. Look at the books available in the market that covers the series you are going to collect. If your unsure of which ones to buy come to the forum or a forum you like this and ask the members for suggestions. Their combined knowledge will set you in the right direction. Now you have a head start on most new collectors. You have less of a chance of getting burned and a great chance of having a whole lot of fun. What to do, next well you can start buying. The key to buying successfully is first to know what you want and what you can afford. Start looking at every picture from the coin series you want to collect. Get to coin shows physically and look at the coins. If you have questions ask away. If they can't answer at the show bring them here. We have a whole lot of combined knowledge. We don't always agree and when we don't... you hear both sides of the story and you can decide. GDJMSP and CONDOR are two of the best researchers I know. Jody has given some real good advice. Susanlynn is one of the most honest dealers I know. This forum is loaded with people that will help you out or give you advice. They are the type that is going to make coin collecting a hobby that will be there for you years to come. catman
I agree and I intend to do just that as soon as my budget allows. I look forward to advice here in this forum, there are many knowledgeable members. I kinda gathered that certain books were better to have than others,But did not really know witch ones. I think the Breens will be on my wish list for my next birthday. Thanks your advice has been well received. Digger
