Grading thoughts 1904-0 Morgan

I think this is a MS-63........feedback appreciated

 

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Too many hits for a 63 on the obverse, and chatter in the fields on both sides. I would say MS 61, with a strong strike for an o mint coin.

 

My sentiments exactly.

 

61 maybe a 62

 

+1

 

AU, I believe I see wear.... Not much luster either

 

Where do you see wear? I don't. Just normal bag marks and nicks from storage as I see it. Just curious. Normal high spot places for wear are the top of the cap on the obverse, the hair, and on the reverse, the feathers and talons of the eagle. They look pretty good to me--it is just a chattery coin in terms of contact marks.

 

Cotton blossoms and feathers look good...62

 

would you consider the breast feathers rather weak ? Also a mark across the top chest area of the breast itself ?

 

Nope. I would call it a decent strike on a date that is notorious for weak strikes. I see the mark across the breast, and it is a pretty obvious contact mark--mint bag storage does that. I stand by thinking it is a low level uncirculated coin--I said 61, and a couple of other senior members said 61 or 62. That seems right to me.

 

Such a strong strike for a notoriously weakly struck date. I would like to see more definition in the breast feathers and hair above the ear (look @ the talons &wreath). I can see a grey appearance in the obverse field adjacent to the nose and lips. There is a lot of rub on this coin & where is all the luster???? AU58 on a good day

 

I'm in at 62 . This pic is the equivalent of using a 10X loupe to grade and the size is making each weak spot or hit look bigger than it would in hand . And though it may not be dripping in luster it has more than enough for a 62 .

 

....and when you (not you personally, rzage) look at a "realistic" MS61 under the same circumstances, you'd be thinking hard about 63 for this one.

If you want an example of how convoluted and complex VAMming can get, this coin is a good start. Have a look next to the eagle's right leg, under the wing. See the triangular mark? That's considered a denticle impression, and if I have my attribution right this is a VAM-22A1. This reverse was used with three different obverses, two of which are now designated as VAM-22A1 and 22A2, and the third as VAM-12A & B (two different obverse die states).

And the VAM-12's were struck between the two VAM-22's. Welcome to VAMming, a work in progress.

This coin is the earliest usage of the reverse, which should help to explain the quality of the strike. And any New Orleans Morgan with the center talon of the eagle's left foot that well-developed is a strong strike indeed.

 

I reviewed the coin closer and agree it is a VAM 22A1......does this carry a premium on the coin???What would be the value in MS-62?
Thank you

 

61

 

MS62

 

No, I would not be looking at a "realistic" Ms 63 if I considered it as such. There are too many bag marks for it to be a 63. The one thing that coin has going for it, besides the VAM designation (which means nothing to me, as a longtime Morgan collector, as VAMs do not interest me at all) is a decent strike for the date. It is close to being a details coin based on all the surface damage, but for the fact that it has not circulated. That is why I went for a low grade MS--lots of hits, nicks, and scrapes on it--I stand by MS 61 at most.

 

And I know too much about coin photography to take these images literally. You may be correct, but there isn't sufficient evidence.

 

Surfaces, surfaces, surfaces. The number one criteria on grading. Of course, I could be wrong, but it looks like the surface preservation is on the low side. I have owned literally thousands of Morgans, and most 63s, while baggy, tend to be a bit cleaner than this one. Once again, as you said, photography isn't great for grading of coins--the light can exaggerate them, or make them look worse. I just think the 61 or possibly pushing 62 at the most is the way it looks to me. JMHO.