Grading/slabbing: Where is the value point?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by wlwhittier, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Peripheral Member

    Yep...Here again, and so soon.

    I'll attach pics of a specific coin at the end of this, that I've had two 'experts' differ about over eyeball grading; these two guys were sitting side by side, and may have just been giving me the run-around, but their arguments were about subtle points of wear and color, and seemed genuine....I am clueless about such subtleties. One was sure it wasn't any better than EF40; the other thought it should go as AU50. Your collective opinions will be welcome, for sure.

    The larger issue for me is this: how to assess, [before sending a coin (there'll be about 50-60 Morgan & Peace dollars to consider) for slabbing], whether the cost is justified in terms of return at sale?

    No doubt this question is dirt-common, and has been answered elsewhere in the forums, and I will pursue that thread.

    I plan to use ANACS, but can only justify that preliminary decision based on the preferences of others. Seems the consensus is that they deliver better value consistently, and return your coins somewhat more promptly. I gotta start somewhere.

    Again, my thanks for your help. Warren P1050870.jpg P1050868.jpg
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  3. McBlzr

    McBlzr Sr Professional Collector

  4. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Going from memory, it looks legit. Grade-wise, I'd like to see other photos, but from what you've provided my gut says the details are at best VF range, even with the light strikes known for the date.
  5. swish513

    swish513 Penny & Cent Collector

    all grading is opinion. nothing more, nothing less.
  6. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    In my very experienced opinion you will be making a mistake using ANACS.
  7. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Peripheral Member

    That's a good (and sobering) site. Thanks for the link!
  8. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    High VF to low XF?
  9. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Peripheral Member

    OK. I just joined PCGS. Do you have issues with them or their services?

    As swish513 said below, it's all opinion. I've got a lot of work to do, and I feel a little overwhelmed with the options and all the diverse viewpoints about these grading services. So...I took your counsel, didn't go with ANACS, and PCGS is where I'm gonna begin. Whew!
  10. McBlzr

    McBlzr Sr Professional Collector

    For the average collector it costs about $25 to $30 per coin graded, when you add up all the fees. Shipping & insurance both ways, and the grading fees. The question is will you see that much of increased value in the individual coin to make it worth your while. Or do you have other reasons for wanting your coins graded? I am torn between doing this all the time with a lot of my collection :confused:

    PS: I have the $39 membership with NGC ;)
  11. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Peripheral Member

    That's about where I'm settling...but gross ignorance, abetted somewhat by CT help, tells me I have a lot to learn. Thanks...
  12. Cazkaboom

    Cazkaboom One for all, all for me.

    I've got the $16 membership with the ANA and therefore can submit to NGC.
  13. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    Me too!
  14. mrweaseluv

    mrweaseluv Supporter! Supporter

    First, I have nothing against ANACs, they are the only company I have used and only for Morgan VAMs that other TPGs won't certify/slab (just sent off my 2nd and 3rd this week) However if you are specificaly looking for resale value, I have to say use PCGS as they carry a higher premium on resale. NGC takes a middle 2nd and ANACs 3rd (though some will argue IGC for 3rd) The difficulty lies in the fact PCGS and NGC are much more likely to bodybag a coin for any issues. All said I like and own coins slabbed by all 3 but then I don't tend to let go of coins once I own them.
  15. Troodon

    Troodon Coin Collector

    One thing you have to remember is that TPGs provide a service, not a product. The value that a slab adds to a coin is theoretically 0. Having said that, the perception is PCGS>NGC>ANACS>>>ICG. I will concede having a coin slabbed can make it easier to sell, possibly even sell for more, but it's almost never going to get you more money for your coin than it cost to have it slabbed, unless your coin is graded at such a high condition that it's rare in that condition.

    On a more concrete note, ANACS is the cheapest of the "big 3" and that's a fact, rather than an opinion. They also attribute some VAMs and other varieties that PCGS/NGC won't. PCGS may be the most respected, but they're far more expensive because of that and require an expensive membership before you can submit coin #1 to them, which then also charge you for (alternatively you can find a PCGS member to submit it for you to avoid the membership fee, but a portion of that fee is going to get passed onto you one way or another). NGC is cheaper than PCGS but more expensive than ANACS, and requires an ANA membership to submit coins (not worth it unless you're already a member anyway). ICG should be counted lucky they ever get mentioned in a conversation like this... er, can't recommend them in any case.

    In summary, where's the value point? Er, unless your coin is rare in the condition that it grades in (or if it's a commonly faked coin that people will not likely buy without assurance it's authentic, such as a trade dollar), getting it slabbed will be a net loss to you. If it's not a high value coin either don't get it slabbed at all or get it slabbed by the cheapest reasonably respected TPG. If paying x dollars to get your coin slabbed will not raise the sales price of your coin by x dollars or more, and it almost never will, then it's not worth it.
  16. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    Just to clarify.........

    ANACS attributes ALL Morgan and Peace dollar VAM's.

    An ANA membership IS NOT a prerequisite for submitting coins to NGC. Rather, one of the benefits of an ANA membership is that you are allowed direct submission privileges to NGC. However, this privilege DOES NOT include some of the other online privileges that paid NGC members receive.

    I'd also like to add that I agree with Tom that if your sole purpose for submitting Morgan & Peace dollars to ANACS is to sell them, then you will not likely garner the premiums that are normally associated with the same (grade) coins that are certified by PCGS or NGC. You may want to heed Tom's advice because he has many years experience selling early 19th century coinage. Ergo, if his advice applies to early coinage, then it would be even more appropriate for Morgan & Peace dollars.

    One further note.........

    Despite the fact that ANACS will attribute all Morgan & Peace dollars, there are probably a couple thousand of these varieties (maybe more!) that do not warrant attribution even at the ANACS cost of submission. So, if you're not well-versed on which VAM's do or don't receive reasonable premiums for their specific variety, then you are better off saving your money.

  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Simple answer, if the coin is not worth $150-$200 then don't bother spending the money to get it slabbed.

    Of course that presents you with other questions, like how do you tell what the coin is worth ? Well, you sampled a bit of that already. One guy says XF40, another says AU50 - so which is it ? The answer to that is you don't know.

    Then, assuming you decide on a grade, you have to look up what that coin in that grade sells for. So where do you look to find that information ? In XF40 Numismedia says it's worth approx $300, PCGS says it's worth $650. Pretty big difference, which one do you believe ? It's kind of the same problem you have deciding which of those guys grading the coin to believe isn't it ?

    And there are no recent sales of that coin in XF40 in the Heritage archives. The most recent was almost 4 years ago and that was for a coin in a 45 slab that sold for $460. And if you search the records for sales in the AU range, the price roughly triples for a 53 or 55.

    But if the coin were to end up being graded VF, then the price drops to under $300, for a problem free example. It could range from $150- $350, depending on which source you use. And if the TPG determines it is not problem free, and looking at the coin that is possible in my opinion - then all of that goes out the window and prices drop substantially.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is you have a lot of questions but no real answers. And even if you send the coin in to PCGS, and get it graded, you still won't know what it'll sell for until you actually sell it. But you kind of have a rough idea of a range now.

    Of course none of this has anything to do with the 50 Morgan & Peace dollars you mentioned. But the process is the same to find out.
  18. wlwhittier

    wlwhittier Peripheral Member

    Thanks...that decides the issue for me.

    I don't believe any of those Cartwheels will reveal worth in the range that will make slabbing feasible.

    As for the two Trade Dollars and the 1870 1-Yen...well, I'm gonna have to mull that over.

    eBay seems risky, even for Peace & Morgan dollars, though I know that many of them are traded there daily. I have heard horror stories about coinage transactions...I don't want any problems, if I can reasonably avoid them.

    All responses have helped me, and I'm glad to have them as foundation for decision.

    Again, my gratitude to all of you. Warren
  19. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    I've enjoyed the commentary on TPGs here and the sorts of things that need to be considered when deciding on if and when to have a coin slabbed. Thanks everyone!
  20. Pepperoni

    Pepperoni Senior Member

    Any coin that can be replicated , I would have a good TPG do for that reason alone.

  21. Leadfoot

    Leadfoot there is no spoon

    "Grading/slabbing: Where is the value point? "

    A simple rule-of-thumb answer: When the coin is worth more than $250.
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