Team Coin Talk, Here is a really nicely toned dark gray 1899 Barber Dime. What grade would you give it and a few words on your reasons. Thanks Bone/Ben
F---the detail is nice and sharp......LIBERTY seems to be full! The rim on the back looks funny....almost spooned... Speedy
I gotta go with F 15 too. The reverse might make VF, but I don't think the obverse does. To make Vf half the details in the leaves need to be present and on this coin I don't think they are.
I must be missing something then. I am working from the 18th ed. of Photograde and the second ed. of the ANA grading Standards... and the ANA says "Very fine 30: Obverse: The bottom row of leaves is weak but has some visible details..." The ANA photo for fine: The Photogtrade photo of fine: The coin in question has markedly more detail that these, right? The ANA VF photo: The Photograde VF photo: These seem pretty close to what the original looks like to me. What am I missing?
Without a closeup of the headband I have to go with VF instead of an XF and because of the nicks in the obv fields and the extreme flatness of the nose and lips and the (it could be the picture) lack of any detail in the leaf just left of the bow on the rev will give it an overall VF-25
Easy answer, if you had a newer edition of the ANA Guide. In 1986 the ANA announced that the standards it was using were too lenient and that stricter more conservative standards were needed. The 3rd edition, containing these stricter standards was published in 1987. Now I will grant you, these stricter standards largely pertained to MS coins. But you would be well served to get an updated edition of the book. But in this case, even the 6th edition has the same wording as you mention above for VF 30. Now read what it says for VF 20. Now since it says the same thing in the 1st edition and the 6th edition I'm willing to bet it says the same thing in the 2nd edition too. And that's the issue - there aren't details let alone half of them. All that can be seen are the outlines of the leaves. At least none can be seen in those pictures, even when I use a magnifying glass to look at them. Thus my opinion - the coin is in better condition than that described for F 12 but not good enough to make VF 20. Therefore I grade it F 15. The problem is this, when use the grading standards you start at the bottom and work up - not at the top and work down. This is because before you can move up the assumption has to be made that the next higher grade enconpasses not only its own description, but everything included in the next lowest grade's description as well. What that means in this case is that even though it says in the VF 30 description that the bottom row of leaves can be weak with some details visible, then the top row of leaves must be pretty strong with most details visible since at least half of the details in both rows have to be visible for the coin to grade VF 20. Does that make sense ?
My Opinion F-15. I have to agree with the details missing from the leaves. But then again, if it were slabbed SGS it might go MS63.
It's not so much that what you were doing was wrong - you just weren't using all of the information. The pics in the grading books are the pitts - try not to put too much stock in them. You're better off using the descriptions and becoming familiar with the coins. By that I mean the MS coins, particularly in higher grades. It's kind of hard to judge how much detail should be remaining on the circ examples if you don't know how much detail there should be to begin with. And for that, the high grade MS examples are your standard.
