Fugio Cent - help with attribution and grade appreciated

A question please for the U.S Colonial experts:
This is a coin i purchased at Coinex, one of the big annual London Coin events in 1986. Bought as very good. It is the variety with "States - United", but i have no idea which variety it is. I would greatly appreciate help in attributing this coin, and your thoughts on grade.
Thanks and regards,
Eduard

 

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Well, I am certainly NOT a US Colonial expert ! But I think a grade of VG seems reasonable.

Many of these early coppers are plagued by crummy planchets, but yours seems pretty good.

 

I think VG is a little low. You might be able to call it a Fine. OK so call it VG-10. That is one attractive Fugio!

I don't have a copy of either of Newman's book but based on the attribution guide in the Jan 1984 Penny-Wise it seems to be 18-U. (center of ornament right of the right edge of the upright of the I, I in BUSINESS high. On the reverse R is left of center over the N.)

But it doesn't seem to quite match Obv 18 from the description in Michael McLaughlin Fugio files updated in the March 1993 Penny-Wise

If it is an 18-U it is an R-4 and yours would be tied with about nine others at 29th finest known Condition Census is

18 - U Rarity 4: 1AU, 2XF, 19VF, 6F, 9VG, 4G.

He does mention a die chip in the field between the first cinquefoil and the
dial plate. I do see it just below and right of the cinquefoil on your coin.

Can anyone else confirm my attribution?

 

I think the 18-U is not correct ,the "E" in WE is too far to the right on this coin & from the picture does not seem to be doubled & the major diagnostic for 18-U is the boldly repunched E.
- I have gone through about 30 varieties so far & cant come up with a match. The closest I have came is the 17-S variety but the obverse doesnt match up enough for me.

This is a tough one Eduard-

 

Any chance this is a discovery coin ???

 

Very nice coin. Looks like a F to me, sorry can't help with the attribute.

 

I have Newman's new book, but it may take me a few days to research for you. Budgood - if you already have attempted this from his book, let me know and I won't bother (will save me some time I imagine). Too busy right now and will be going to the St. Louis show this weekend - so again, it may take me a few days to look up.

 

It's a 16-N: :thumb:

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex1.obv.jpg

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex1.rev.jpg

Very nice coin! I'm jealous!

Ribbit

Ps: I'd also say VF on grade!

 

Nice find-One of the few varieties I could not find a piture of .

 

Notre Dame has all of them, I think. I know they have the best listing I've found so far and I use it all the time:

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/NewmanNewHavenFugios/

Ribbit

Ps: Since I was playing around in the Fugios, I decided to try and attribute one I haven't been able to figure out and I finally looked at WE ARE ONE and how it was situated and how the O in ONE is "dropped" and ARE goes the full length of the inner circle and a star separates UNITED STATES, and that's a Newman 15-y, which is a R-3. The other one I have is a Newman 12-M and a R-4 but neither is in as good of shape as the OP coin, which I am so jealous of! :thumb:

 

Guys, you all are really tops! Many thanks for your help.

The Fugio is a design which i really like. There is something very appealing in the simple yet symbolic design of interlocking rings. I really like it. The design of the US "bar" cent is in my opinion similar in concept: Simple, yet very symbolic.

I wanted to purchase another Fugio during my recent trip to the US, but all the ones i saw had defective, non-appealing planchets, and they weren't cheap either! There must be a lot of collectors out there who want them.

Does anybody know the rarity rating of the 16-N?

Once again, many thanks for your help!

Eduard

 

R-4 as per Heritage and they seem to be on top of Rarity Ratings better than anyone else I've found. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Hey, thank you HandsomeToad. I know you like colonials too. What is your latest find?
My next dream coin here would be a Continental Dollar, but i think that one will have to stay a dream (if i want to keep my marriage intact that is).

Thansk you again,
Eduard

 

A Continental Dollar is tops on my list too, along with a Chain Cent. :thumb: But both of those are way down the road, since they cost so much.

My latest (last 2 weeks) colonial snabs are:

2 New Jersey coppers (1786 & ????)
2 1787 Fugio coppers (N12-M & N15-Y)
1 1783 Nova Constellation copper (C1-A)
1 1781 North American Token
1 1792 Kentucky Token (plain edge)
1 1793 Bermuda Penny
1 1794 Talbot, Allum & Lee Cent Token (lettered edge)


Most of those are still in route and once I get the unknown date New Jersey in, I'll be able to attribute/date it. The pic wasn't good enough to attribute it but considering I only had one as of buying those two, I could tell by looking at it that it wasn't the one I already have so it will fill a variety hole. I've been extremely busy attributing DBC's on Ebay, looking for the good ones and I'm current am about 25% complete on my DBC Collection, with most being Scarce or better. I'm also trying to cut a deal for another Fugio but it is still in the works. If I get it, I'll post it and what variety it is. :thumb:

Ribbit

 

Certainly the die break on the reverse ties your pictures to the OP's coin. However, on the obverse, even given the wear on the OP's, there are three things that are very close but just don't quite look right to me.
1. the base of the I in FUGIO
2. the shape of the O in FUGIO
3. the shape of the 8 in the date. (how poetic!)

I'm probably seeing things that aren't there but that's what I do.

 

I'm curious what you are using as a reference because you could compare the one on CoinFacts to the one on Notre Dame's site, and I would guess you'd have the same concerns, which only goes to die states because there is nothing different in the base of the "I" in FUGIO, except the one on ND's site has a die crack under it (1st example) and Eduardo's/CoinFact's doesn't and the same is true for the rest of your concerns. So compare both to his:

http://coinfacts.com/colonial_coins/fugio_cents/fugio_cent_n016_N.htm

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex1.obv.jpg

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex1.rev.jpg

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex2.obv.jpg

http://www.coins.nd.edu/fugio/Newman1-24/fugio.16-N.ex2.rev.jpg

Ribbit

 

Statement withdrawn. I just don't have enough experience with these or the resources to come to sound conclusions.

 

Yep ! Early coppers are tough these days.

Hope you had a great time here in the States !

 

I don't either, I just run through the pics till I find one that matches. :kewl: The ones with "tells" are easier to find but not always. I was trying to attribute one last night and gave up. It looked like a N18-U on the reverse but the obverse didn't. I finally gave up but primarily because the boogher went above $200.00 and was more than I was willing to pay, since I'm such a cheapskate.

Ribbit

Ps: Your grade of VG-10 is probably right on the money but it could go as high as F-15.

Pps: I just finished cutting the deal for my 3rd Fugio. It's a N12-U (R-5) and very worn but attributable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180275521884&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

 

Thank you 900fine, we had a very nice vacation in Massachusetts. I had the opportunity to visit 3 coins shows in just 3 weeks and picked up a few nice coins, so that was an additional bonus. I compensated for dragging my family around to these shows, by spending a few days in Cape Cod. The weather was gorgeous. We liked it so much, that we are now considering buying some property there (i will be forced to do a lot less coin buying in the future to be able to finance that!)
regards,
Eduard