Flowing Hair Half with odd lines on obverse, "T" doubled

I was looking at this coin and noticed the doubled "T" in Liberty, but also noticed some weirdness around the lower left. There are two pictures (sellers pictures so this is what I have to work with). One was taken with some glare on the slab, but I posted it anyway. The lines that I'm concerned about are most visible in the second obverse image. Look at the date and then extending around and up the left side of the coin.

The coin is graded VF by NGC. Any thoughts are welcome, as I'm trying to get better at the process of looking at some of these older halves. Thanks!

 

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Its a die crack/break on the bottom

 

When the dies are over-used they wear down and get cracks or breaks in them which then shows up as a raised portion on the coin. I find them interesting, some people look for things like that depending on what they like to collect.

 

I get it... I think. The crack in the die leaves a void, and when the die is pressed onto the coin blank the silver can flow into that crack instead of being pressed flat.

Thanks!

 

Yep! You got it!

 

Some of you may already be aware of this, but I found an entertaining write-up on bust coins here:

http://drapedbustcoins.reidgold.com/

It includes information about the model, the history of the coins, and a page showing a number of different counterfeits and their characteristics. Very informational, at least for me.

 

yeaa sweet

 

So since this is the "what's it worth" forum, anyone want to give me an idea of a ballpark figure that would be good? I have an ebay bucks coupon that's burning a hole in my pocket... I'm a long-term holder rather than a flipper so I don't need to make a killing on the purchase, but I don't want to get stuck either...

 

If it's VF it's a low end VF. I think $500 would be my absolute limit on this coin. Of course this is only my opinion and there are far more knowledgeable people here than me.

 

You might want to check this against a possible Overton variety. I'm also seeing something in your first photo, protruding at the breast, that looks like lamination or a possible clash.

 

Nice catch! Die clash without a doubt!

 

This coin has alot going on (as I hear some early bust coins do). I once passed on an 1883 cc Morgan for about 50 bucks over ask that I've always regretted not buying. One of the busiest coins I've ever seen. It was an ms63 or 64 and It had a ton of die polish lines under the Eagles beak and neck, very pretty toning, a doubled clash that was heavy and something else I can't remember. It was awesome and I didn't buy it just because it wasn't close to sheet. But I loved it so it should have been worth the premium to me. I wouldn't have ever sold it so it wouldn't have mattered. One of my earlier coin buying lessons.

Buy I am in no way trying to influence you to buy this coin. this was just one of my own experiences. I don't get the cdn anymore though So I don't know what bid or ask on this thing would be.

 

I have two sons active in Boy Scouts, and I'm signed up as a coin collecting merit badge counselor. Wouldn't this coin be an interesting example of both an early American coin and - as you say - a coin with a lot going on?

And before anyone gives me grief about being a merit badge counselor and not recognizing a die crack, I'm still learning. That's why I come here. I don't have to know everything about coin collecting, I just need to know more than they do...

 

Definitely a good teaching coin. I mean the doubling in the t has alot to say about how the dies were made back then with punches and such. Bust coinage is really neat and has a lot of minting history tied to it. like I was talking about with that Morgan dollar, it would have been a good teaching coin too. They are alot cheaper and you can find lots of them with heavy clashes and die polish (it's always pretty easy to see under the Eagles neck). Also there's all kinds of varieties in those too and they make great examples as deep mirror proof like or proof like coins which were usually the first coins to come off a brand new die or a die that had just been cleaned and polished. Lots of good teaching points in the Morgan series. And most of the rarities tie in with the political and economic history of the country at the time of the minting. Coins are pretty darn neat.

 

For what it's worth, I went ahead and bought this coin. Based on the feedback I got, I paid too much. That's okay, I went into the purchase knowing that I was over paying but I don't intend to flip the coin, and the ability to use it as a "teaching example" of various different things that can happen to a coin was very attractive to me. It also leaves me with only one more half dollar (flowing hair) to get to complete a set of US half dollars.

Can you provide more information on what you're seeing? I have the coin in hand now, so if I need to take closer pictures to help you explain what you see, I can try to do that. Thanks!

 

Your photo's are great. No need to zero in. There is a protrusion at the breast that appears to be a clash of the reverse elements. Maybe someone here could provide an overlay to show if this is a true clash. The die cracks are self evident with the obverse showing at 6 o'clock to about 9 o'clock from the date going west and also at the O in Of on the reverse. Your first photo is the best for seeing the clash.

 

I can definitely see the die crack. At the risk of repeating basic information, let me write what I understand about a clash and perhaps you can tell me if I'm on the right track. From what I remember reading here, a clash can occur when a part of a design "leaks through" from the other side of the coin. I think I got that from reading a thread a while back about a "triple talon" Ike dollar, where the talons from the eagle on the reverse were visible on the obverse.

So with that theory, if I took the reverse image, flipped it and made it mostly transparent, did an overlay on top of the obverse, then the mark that you're seeing on the breast should match up with a design element from the reverse, right?

And does my explanation make sense, in simplistic terms?

 

Yeah that's about right but it's not really bleed through. Its been a long time but if I remember right the "clash" part of the term comes from the damage made on both dies when the dies strike each other without a planchet in between them thus leaving some of the design on the opposite dies which is then a raised part on the coin when it is struck. That's the part you see on the coin and why it will align with the design on the reverse.

 

I'm glad I asked then, because I had the wrong understanding. I will have to go back and re-read the other topic again.

If the die itself becomes damaged, then wouldn't there be a bunch of coins with the same error, at least until the person running the machine notices the error and replaces the die?

 

Yes there will be a run of coins with the same error for awhile until the dies are fixed or a new set of dies is used.