First Strike Nonsense

I got my Coin World yesterday, and on the front page I see that someone is finally taking tpgs to task for misleading advertising with first strikes. NGC is being sued in Florida, and the plaintiff appears to have some pretty persuasive documentation from the mint. I can't wait to see what happens.

Steve

 

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who knows maybe the mint will start puting the dd mm yy format on coins . or "first fine strikes off the 6th dye in the series"

think in a 100 years people will be looking at first fine strikes as an example of 21st centuries approach to anything for a buck mentality

 

I can't understand all the hoopla about first strike in the label of graded coins. If I was going to buy a graded coin and had the choice between one with a plain label and one that said "First Strike" at the same price I would chose the "First Strike". For one thing it looks better and has a patriotic slant.

 

I agree! I believe this first strike nonsense is a ploy to get a premium for a coin that is just like any other coin of that grade. How can anyone tell???? It's bad enough that a slabbed coin will bring a premium because of someones subjective grading standards. I say, learn to grade and be your own judge of a coins value per grade. So what if it takes years to learn, I've got the time and the desire.

 

Couldn't sleep the other night, and flipping through the channels I found the "Coin Vault" show. They were selling ASEs slabbed by NGC with the designation "1 of the first 50,000 minted".

They claimed that the Mint had confirmed that some numbers in two 25,000 coin boxes confirmed that they contained the absolute first strikes. And NGC (undoubtedly for a very substantial fee) bought into it.

 

Time to send a nasty letter off to the Mint..

 

I wouldn't trust CoinVault to be honest. After all, the Mint did issue a press release basically stating that First Strike is BS.

 

I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw the fat one.

First Strike is a bunch of bull. Nothing more than a marketing tool used to screw people out of their money. Well....I guess you can't "screw" them out of their money when they are willing to pay it. I'm waiting for the Last Strike designation.

 

You gonna order the Golden Bufflo in December, too? :whistle: :headbang: :headbang:

 

Everyone has to make a decision... "Am I a coin collector or am I a slab collector?"

The answer will settle the matter for you and you won't really care about this stuff ever again. Keep in mind, the US Mint and the TPGs are not your friend. They are just trying to separate you from your money.

 

Let's start with what the biggest marketer of "created collectible coins" (the US Mint), has to say...

""First Strike"

The United States Mint has received inquiries from consumers regarding use of the term "first strike." The term has appeared in connection with the advertising and grading of 2005 and 2006 silver, gold, and platinum proof and bullion American Eagle Coins, and the new 2006 24-karat proof and bullion American Buffalo Gold Coins. Currently, there is no widely-accepted and standardized numismatic industry definition of "first strike." Coin dealers and grading services may use this term in varying ways. Some base its use on dates appearing on United States Mint product packaging or packing slips, or on the dates of product releases or ceremonial coin strike events. Consumers should carefully review the following information along with each dealer’s or grading service’s definition of "first strike" when considering a purchase of coins with this designation.

The United States Mint has not designated any 2005 or 2006 American Eagle Coins or 2006 American Buffalo Coins as "first strikes," nor do we track the order in which we mint such coins during their production. The United States Mint held a launch ceremony for the 2006 American Buffalo Gold Coin on June 20, 2006, two days before its release on June 22, at which two proof coins and two uncirculated coins were ceremonially struck. However, those coins were not individually identified and were put in regular inventory after the ceremony. The United States Mint did not hold any striking ceremonies for the 2005 or 2006 American Eagle Coins.

The United States Mint strives to produce coins of consistently high quality throughout the course of production. Our strict quality controls assure that coins of this caliber are produced from each die set throughout its useful life. Our manufacturing facilities use a die set as long as the quality of resulting coins meets United States Mint standards, and then replace the dies, continually changing sets throughout the production process. For bullion American Eagle and American Buffalo Coins, the United States Mint makes an average of about 6,000 coins from one die set. For proof versions of the 2006 American Buffalo Coins, the yield is an average of about 1,500 coins per die set. For proof versions of the American Eagle Coins, the yield is an average of about 300-500 coins per die set. This means that coins may be minted from new die sets at any point and at multiple times while production of a coin is ongoing, not just the first day or at the beginning of production. To put this in context, in 2005 the United States Mint produced approximately 356,500 one-ounce gold, 8,891,000 silver, and 6,300 one-ounce platinum American Eagle Bullion Coins.

American Eagle and American Buffalo Coins are not individually numbered and the United States Mint does not keep track of the order or date of minting of individual bullion or proof coins. The United States Mint begins production several weeks before these coins are scheduled to be released. By the release dates for 2005 and 2006 bullion coins, the United States Mint had already minted approximately 50% of the projected sales numbers for these coins. Any dates on shipping boxes containing uncirculated bullion coins sent to Authorized Purchasers are strictly for quality control and accounting purposes at the United States Mint at West Point. The date on the box represents the date that the box was packed, verified as 500 ounces and sealed, and the date of packaging does not necessarily correlate with the date of manufacture. The date on shipping labels and packing slips for proof coins, which are sent directly to United States Mint customers from our fulfillment center, is the date the item was packed and shipped by the fulfillment center. The other numbers on the shipping label and packing slip are used to track the order and for quality control."

Now, let's look at how one of the promoters of "First Strike" coins defines their product...

"First Strike (TM)
Beginning in 2004, PCGS began designating coins delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as "First Strike". For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coins delivered between January 1 and January 31 qualify for the First Strike (TM) designation."

And here's another profiteer's disclaimer...

"NGC Authentication of First Strikes Coinage
Collectors have always sought out coins of special significance, and one way that a coin can be distinguished from another is by the date that it was struck. Included in this category are coins of early or first release. A general term for these coins is first strikes. There are several different types of first strikes and limited edition coinage which can be noted on the certification label by NGC. In all cases, this special designation is reserved for coinage with accompanying documentation, and NGC has adopted conventions for its designation.

For U.S. bullion coinage, NGC designates as first strikes coins that were shipped from the U.S. Mint within the first month of their official release.

To qualify for NGC's first strikes designation, coins must arrive at NGC within the first month of release or be submitted in sealed U.S. Mint packaging with dated documentation enclosed.

This definition applies to all Gold, Silver, and Platinum American Eagle and Buffalo coins. Mint State coins must be accompanied by date tags indicating that they were struck and packaged prior to January 31 of the enclosed coins' dated year. Proof issues must be sealed within their original Mint shipment packaging and with accompanying packing slip inside.

NGC denotes the first strikes designation with a special first strikes emblem label and the words FIRST STRIKES appear in the coins' descriptions.

There are other types of coins of early release which can be designated by NGC. In some cases the words FIRST STRIKE have appeared on a regular NGC label. This designation indicates that the encapsulated coin was struck during a first strike ceremony at the U.S. Mint. When the U.S. Mint releases a new coinage design, a special event can be held during which notable figures related to that coinage will be invited to strike the first of these coins. This has been used on States Quarters and other circulating and commemorative issues.

On several occasions, NGC has received coinage with official mint documentation stating that a particular group of coins were among the first examples produced. These will be represented on their certification label indicating that the encapsulated coin belongs to this edition. The size of the edition is also included (e.g., ONE OF FIRST 1000 STRUCK; ONE OF FIRST 50,000 STRUCK). This designation can also be applied to foreign coins when satisfactory supporting documentation is available. The NGC first strikes emblem label is not used for this designation."

Now let me quote from a gentleman who owns the #1 ranked NGC Registry Set...

"I never paid much attention when the “First Strike” designation started popping up on slabs. But recently, I received a call from a dealer who offered me a chance to buy the new 24k Gold Buffalo in a “First Strike” holder with a grade of MS70. Although my collection (link) does not include “First Strike” coins, this made me curious to learn more about what “First Strike” really means. Was this some U.S. Mint designation? Boy was I surprised when I found out just what kind of marketing program the “First Strike” designation was.

I don’t know who first thought of the “First Strike” marketing concept, but I’d like to congratulate the individual who did. Good job! I wish I had thought of it first!

Do you remember when all shampoo bottles had the directions “lather, rinse, then repeat”? Do you think some doctor discovered our hair or scalp was better off if we washed it twice? No, some marketer figured out that if you changed the directions to add “then repeat”, people would do it and you would sell twice as much shampoo to those people. Maybe this marketer moved on to one of the third party grading services.

So what exactly is a “First Strike?”

In general, a third party grading service gives a “First Strike” designation to those coins packaged for shipment from the U.S. Mint within a month of their official release date. For Mint State coins, the cutoff is basically January 31 of each year. Proof coins are based on the announced release date. All coins must be submitted with their original Mint shipment packaging with accompanying documents indicating they were packaged for shipment from the U.S. Mint within the first month of their official release.

The key words here are that the coins must have been packaged for shipment from the U.S. Mint within the first month of their official release. It has nothing to do with the date of manufacture other than they obviously were manufactured before they were packaged and shipped.

So, the “First Strike” designation is a marketing program based on the principle that collectors have always sought out coins of special significance, and one way that a coin can be distinguished from another is by the date that it was struck. The perception being given by the “First Strike” designation is that somehow these coins were struck first, or at least early, in production. In general, I would agree with this statement. The problem is that, during production, the U.S. Mint does not keep track of the order in which they mint coins. Also, the U.S. Mint begins production several weeks before the coins are officially released. By the release dates for the 2005 and 2006 bullion coins, the U.S. Mint had already minted approximately 50% of the total projected mintage for these coins. The dates on shipping labels and packing slips do not necessarily correlate to the date of manufacture. This is all clearly stated on the U.S. Mint’s website under Consumer Awareness.

I have also heard the argument that the “First Strike” designation somehow implies that the strike of the earlier coins is somehow better that those struck later. This might be true if the Mint only used one set of dies during production. Since dies wear out and are replaced, this argument goes out the window. Also, a coin graded First Strike MS69 is no better than a non-First Strike coin graded MS69, regardless of what day it was minted.

But there is no arguing the fact that coins with the “First Strike” designation are commanding a premium over their non-designated counterparts. So there is demand for this designation whether you think it makes sense or not. Third party grading services are profit oriented businesses and not charities set up to benefit the hobby. If there is a demand for this designation from collectors, then it is in their interest to supply that demand. Whether or not this demand carries on into the future is something that we will have to wait and see.

For now, the “First Strike” designation has been a successful marketing campaign. So successful, in fact, that one third party grading service has come up with a another designation, “First Day of Release”. Apparently the coins were packaged and the shipping documents created on the first day of release. It doesn’t matter what day the coins were actually minted, only when they were packaged for shipment. One can only imaging what they may think of next.

So, if you get a call from a dealer offering you a “First Strike” 2006 24k Gold Buffalo graded MS70, you now know that that coin may be any one of the coins minted before the official release date that possibly represent 50% of the total mintage based upon the U.S. Mint’s projected sales numbers, plus any others minted and shipped within the first month after the release date. Do you know how many that is? . . . Neither do I. . . . But I do have to fess up, I may not have bought a “First Strike” coin, but I do still rinse and repeat."

Hopefully, this will shed some light on just one of the many ways TPG's have deceived, and misinformed collectors, in order to profit from the hobby of coin collecting.

 

I bought the buffalo first strike in the proof 70 . It was the first slabbed coin i bought and at the time that was the only way i could get one at that time. Funny thing is that i will have to admitt i was taken in at first by hsn when they were selling the proof 70 buffalo " First day of issue" and wanted to order one of those 1 of 570 or what ever it was. They could not get up with me to confirm my order and it was canceled. I was ticked off so much and i went on line and found a dealer who was selling a "First Strike" buffalo for a little over 1/2 the first day of issue was selling for.

this was many month ago and i checked the other day and the one i tried to order is still available. seems a lot of people sent them back . A lesson well learned by me. It is still amazing how much these First strikes are selling over the "regular" proof 70 buffalo. what a gimmic

 

Mos

I would say a letter laced with logic, would go far sent to the mint. Other scams ,lack of protection when sending a coin for grading. Any item that has a bearing on the money supply in general and collectables being able to be traced after robberies from dealers and collectors. The COA would follow the coin and the coin would follow the COA. If I can have a chip under the skin of my dog so I might get her back if she wanders off, why can we not have a strip imbeded in the planchet or another high tech way of scanning valuable coins. If all high grade coins by percentage reside with cetain people other then MR & MRS collector why would this be so. Make a first and last strike of all sets and sell them on a random day. They still might end up in the hands of rich collectors, but the owners would make the choice of who got them. A UPS driver, or a Starbuck coffee person might get chance at a fortune. Make the whole transaction tax free .It would be a lottery in one sense, but you would always get a pay out. If two are not enough, then make it the first hundred, but they all would be sold on the same random day.The government does not take well to problems without solutions, they have enough of those. Send an agrigate list of items that put part of the money supply at risk, and all the others items that need to be addressed. Start with a solution and a way of selling more coins . If packaging is a problem then let them know. Cosing the lid over a fine bubble wrap will take care or coins moving a damaging each other. For every point, pose a logical solution. If it means more money in their cigar box at the end of the year, they will perk their ears. All our currency has serial numbers.
Today I am double six, I have a lot to be thankful for . It has not been easy but learning and sharing is what life is all about. In the end you must give back all. I hope this has been a short illusion, I would love to come back again. There was a movie called " Islands in the Stream ". George c. Scott was dying near the end trying to do a good deed. He muttered " God I was learning so fast near the end " Hemmingway wrote the book.

Be well
Floyd

 

PCGS says this but they did not begin producing First Strike coins until 2005. They may have come up with the scam in 2004 but they didn't implement it until Jan 2005. Earlier dated coins with the "First Strike" designation are coins sent in after Jan 1st 2005 in sealed green monster boxes with dates before Jan 31 of their respctive years.

Why? The Mint has gone out of their way with their documents to firmly state that there is no way to correlate the date of striking with the dates on the packages. I don't trust the mint usually but in this case I would trust them over the claims of the scammers selling the coins. If I was to accept that claim from the scammers I would want documentation to back it up, such as a copy of the letter from the mint making that statement and a copy of the packing slip, which should date for 2006 silver eagles to sometime around late August 2005! (We'll see if they get that right.)

 

A very interesting discourse.
I felt that it was a "gimmick" when the FIRST STRIKES were initialy introduced

On this subject:

US MINT - YEA
TPG's - NAY

 

well here is a question:
How is NGC or PCGS, or ICG, etc. benefiting from the first strike designation?
Do they sell the coins and make a profit if the coin is first strike?
Is the grading fee higher if a coins is "first strike"

My guess is that they are following the market. TPG are a service, not a coin shop.

That being said, i think that this nonsense is going to really hurt TPG services in general (market getting tired of keeping trakc of all the strange designations)

 

I call my first born 'first strike'...but never a coin...I KNOW he's a first strike for my biological mint.

 

first strike

The more coins graded = enhanced revenue.It is about capitalism, not a hobby. Coins are money just as any other commodity when sold. A service industry books revenue and creates sales as any other company.
If they create a more expensive product for a dealer of collector and those items are sold for increased revenue due to a first strike marking, then they directly have created a wave or spike in prices. All done without permission from the mint who is the only legal source or tender.

 

I bought a 2005 PCGS MS69 First Strike for $25 about a year ago. I didn't pay that much of a premium on it IMO.

 

Actually it isn't the mint's fault, it is those guys at the TPG services.
Thay are creating an artificial collectible.