"First Strike" and other nonsense

During the past few months, the fallacy of the "first strike" designation has been made unambiguously clear by the US Mint. (http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/index.cfm?action=HotItems) They do not keep track of the date that any particular coin is struck or whether it was the first or last to be struck from a particular die. The dates on mint packages are the dates the coins were packed, not the dates they were made.

To be most charitable, grading services and dealers may have been misinformed and believed that a packaging date correponding to the first day of sales was a true first strike. However, it is abundantly clear that this is not the case. A coin in a package with the earliest date could have been the last coin to be minted from a worn die just before it was taken out of production.

Despite this, NGC continues to use the term "First Strikes" on its certification, most recently with 20th anniversary American Eagles and dealers continue to advertise them as such.

In my opinion, there is no longer any justification for the continued use of the term "First Strike". Is there another side to this story?

 

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PCGS is doing the same hanky panky...

I agree with you, its ridiculous. I laugh when i see people pay extra for a "first strike". Not my money.

 

NGC ANACS and PCGS all do the first strike!---but I'm NOT a buyer!

Speedy

 

It's so obvious that its a crock of crap that I can't believe anyone falls for it, let alone somewhat educated collectors. Personally I rank it up there with the "Elvis Presley® 25th Anniversary Tennessee State Quarter Tribute." I will say though that I'm *amazed* that the grading companies haven't been sued for false advertising, fraud,etc. and that I don't see how they haven't been fined and/or shut down because of it. Used to be... you couldn't just slap b.s. on something and sell it without getting into a bit of trouble. Wonder what happened to those days.

Anyone know where I can get a first strike of the Elvis Presley® 25th Anniversary Tennessee State Quarter?

 

First strike

The stock market is over burdened with " Market Makers " . Money that they manage gets put into high commission stocks and house funds that will never go anywhere. Here you see the market makers in coins.
After some long talks with various people who know, I think coin authentication is fine , but grading opens a door that can not be closed. As long as there is profit in any industry that is currently legal, the advantage goes to the house, just like gambling. Control supply in any market and you control price on up to retail.
Enron did it and others who have been fined great amounts of money to add to our treasury. Better to take their money then put them in a cell. Take a hobby and make it a business, create a market and it is now really big business. " First Strike " what could possibly make any individual care unless they with the I.Q. of a bowling ball think that it will some day be a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.
Collect what you like, enjoy the art and the people who really know how much fun it was when you got a coin from a friend or relative for a birthday or christmas.

 

unfortunatley if you buy certain coins early you will get the "first Strike" or maybe the great "first day of Issue." Anyhow I like to hear Coin Vault and Coin Collector slamming each others pride and joy. Sad thing is both are right.

man i would hate to buy a used car from either of them

 

I'm wondering the same thing. The US Mint was way more diplomatic than I thought they needed to be. They said "Coin dealers and grading services may use this term in varying ways. .....Consumers should carefully review the following information along with each dealer’s or grading service’s definition of "first strike" when considering a purchase of coins with this designation." They imply it might be legitimate.

I'm disappointed with PCGS. They should know better.

 

I would suspect that they are all doing it because they are trying to stay competitive.

I like NGC very much, but they are probably the worst offenders when it comes to doing weird label stuff. It must be working for them because everyone is doing it now.

 

CoinWorld says some Florida collectors are suing NGC for "unfair and deceptive market practices" related to use of the term 'First Strike'.

 

Say what you want about first strike but in 100 years it will make a difference to astute collectors because of the packaging. If you collect old items, sometimes the packaging is worth more than the product itself.

 

For instance, I recently sniped two NGCs with a star next to the date. The first was a 1925 MS63 Peace Dollar. I had to pay a prenium for the star for I think it has great potential. The second one was a 1925 MS63 "Buff" with the star. I paid a prenium for it also. Before I bought the silver dollar I called up teletrade complaining about why the coin looked clean in the center on the reverse. I told him that I thought it had been cleaned to show the feathers of the Eagle. He was an expert and assured me that it had not and was what was called a "Bullseye". Was I taken with the star designation?

 

You're probably right. I'll ask NGC to certify my clad state quarters as 0.9999 Platinum Eliasberg. They'll be worth a fortune when my kids are ready to start college!

 

It is calle Bullseye toning--and so no I think you did alright---the * as you more than likely know means that he coin is high for the grade and has great eye appeal....in other words even though its graded MS63 it is SOOOO close to and MS64 that they put the *

Speedy

 

I think the fundamental issue here is credibility. If the certification services are willing to certify something that, by general agreement, doesn't exist, what else are they doing that is inaccurate? The problem is that they have an inherent conflict of interest. Their income depends on making customers happy, so they are motivated to upgrade and designate special categories that may or may not exist. I'm sure that if NGC refused to designate coins as "First Strike" the dealers would find someone else to do it and NGC would lose a lot of business.

The best way to do this would be in the same way that scientific publications are reviewed. In the process of "peer review", articles are sent to more than one independent reviewer. Each reviews the work without knowledge of the others' reviews. If they disagree, an editor adjudicates. Neither the reviewer nor the editor stand to gain or lose financially depending on the outcome of the review. In fact, anyone with a financial interest in the subject of the paper is disqualified from reviewing.

 

not exactly speedy, even on NGC's web site it states that a star does not mean "PQ" (can be graded a point higher)
It is just for eye apeal or special characteristics...

To get a star you need four guys who stare at coins all day, every day to agree that the coin has great eye apeal...

as i have heard before though, if a coin has great eye apeal it doesn;t need it on the label. people can tell.

 

Florida lawsuit against NGC over "First Strike"

Here is a news item about the lawsuit against NGC.

http://www.coinworld.com/news/cwhl.asp?uID=&hlID=1

Unfortunately this is only a "teaser". You can't read the full article without a subscription to the online version of Coin World. I'll have to wait for the print copy at the end of the week.

 

slab coins

why people have to slab there modern coins. isn't it so many modern coins graded from 67 -70. if you bought directly from u.s. mint. that's mean you got some grade around 67-70. why pay more to get them. you already got them. except if you buy them from second hand. since 1982 when washington half commem was introduced. from 1982 - present. american eagle series. proof and mint sets. i bought plenty of coins directly from u.s. mint. and all were well preserved. all boxes, certificates were intact and covered with clear plastic envelope to prevent dirty. why should i slab them?. only antique coins cost a lot that i will slab them. and this thing called first strike. it's nonsense. maybe it's third strike.

 

Yes, and I have a bridge in Brooklyn that is for sale.
Seriously, who cares about 100 years from now?
We'll all be pushing up daisies, and our great grandchildren will laugh at us, if our kids haven't sold everything already.

 

First strike

Simply;
Where is the proof ! The mint does not mark them with a time line . A postal stamp is when they are shipped. Most original shipping does not exist. If you do not open the box you may be in for a negative result when goods must be shown to a buyer. Internal packaging damage is not uncommon.

Floyd

 

Duh---sorry about that--
I only have one coin with the * and I guess I was going by just what I heard and sometimes that can sure be wrong as in this case thanks for setting me back on the right road!

Speedy