first spouse coins with red spots

ok it has finally happened some of my fs coins have developed red spots

so gd was right gold tones or should is say 23.999 gold tones and since we dont have 24 thats where i am going to stay.

now it should really not affect the value of the coin or does it ?

toning for silver does not affect its grade or value so why should it for gold


over to GD.

 

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That depends on if it's attractive or not... unattractive toning will always affect value, as will attractive toning... in opposite directions of course.

With all the toning aficionados on this forum, where do you get that toning on silver doesn't affect it's grade or value? We all know there are people here willing to pay several multiples of FMV for a coin with highly attractive toning.

 

i forgot to mention for those who have been following the spock and gd show for the last few years. we are now in 100% agreement. GD had swung over for the regular toning and the TPG issues and i have gone to the other side for gold so unless we can come up with something new this will more or less end the show unless GD or myself change our positions on all existing issues.

 

some more startling results no spotting seen in 90% coins across 4 continents. but the so called pure gold coins are spotting luckily its not something that cant be solved using NCS

 

Do you have any pictures? I'm curious to see this toning.

 

Red spots seems to be a common problem with the .999 fine US gold. The Buffalos have suffered from it since 2006. What it normally is determined to be is excess planchet lubrication oil that is put on the planchets to keep them from sticking in the feed tubes. The oil is red in color. If it really bugs you NCS should be able to get rid of it for you.

 

saw these spots on numerous 1 oz Buffalo golds at a recent show. Most dealer explained it spots similar to white spots on ASE. Although 1 did mention the oil theory. Not toning just a red spot here or there on the coin.

Lack

 

well iam glad we managed to pull the wool over each other eyes. ( we are talking a host of issues for those who came in late)

lets see where that leaves us


the so called pure gold coins are either not pure which would be sad or gold tones which is sadder. unfortunately gold tones whether we like it or not

now you remember how you created the toned coin market GD I wonder if we can get all of these blood red so we can make a killing at the next big auction time to get my air analyzer and see which gas is responsible for this. any leads? we will cut our R&D time by half

oh and for what its worth the intercept is no good at protecting against this. copper ok, silver ok, 90% gold ok, but 100% gold not ok, even with dehumidifiers beating down its neck so we are looking for something that intercept at present cannot stop for some reason and something that stabilizes the 90% gold but doesnt do it for the 100%

we are pretty close to solving this now only if we could get desert gem to come on board we might crack it in a hurry

BTW i really am sorry i did look at the GC from the pre 1933 era and all of them were toned of course no further toning has taken place since i got them but in all honesty and my defense i was looking at them one at a time separated by days in between to know that. still i should have caught it way before now i just deluded myself into believing that it was different kinds of composition. oh well i am sure you can relate (the tpg chronicles )

now my new favorite metals are steel and platinum but mostly steel

 

dont drink from the coolaid lack the oil theory is a sham and milk for silver and wine for gold just makes me laugh

 

oh i forgot to tell you GD platinum and steel dont tone lets see where you take that

 

dear GD stainles steel it is stainless steel. i have never seen it rust

take a look at the linky i sent you the silver coins are stainless steel and they wont rust. i even put them in salt water. can you tell me why?

 

Since gold is the most inert member of the nobel metals, I think it's highly unlikely (although, not impossible) that a chemical reaction produced the "tone". I've read about older (90%) gold coins producing spots or a redish hue, but that was generally attributed to the copper content of the alloy.

I'm not sure how "common" spotting is on .9999 gold coins. I've bought quite a few (for me, anyway) from the Mint since 2006 and haven't seen a spot, yet. However, Condor's suggestion of some external adherant changing color seems very plausible. An NCS cleaning sounds like good advice. ...I also like GeoreM's suggestion of a picture post :thumb:

As to whether or not the toning (spotting) adds value to the coin, I think it depends on...

1. Is the redish spot natural to the composition of the coin? and
2. Is the coin more or less attractive with the spot?

 

Didn't someone have a chemical analysis done of the red spots? I thought I read about it here, in fact.

 

I would be bragging if I tried calling myself a "Novice" in this area...but I find it intriguing. I see three (3) possible sources for the toning/spotting (ordered least likely to most likely)...

1. A chemical reaction with Gold,
2. A chemical reaction with residual compound within the Gold alloy, or
3. A reaction with a non-alloy substance that is either on the surface of (or permiates) the metal.

I find it hard to imagine gold as the reagent. What percentage of gold coins (in your experience) exhibit "toning"? Is it as common as with silver coins? If not, I wonder if there could be some residual contaminates left over from the refining process.

I was reading about the "Wohlwill" gold refinement process. The Wohlwill process uses Aqua Regia (a 1:3 solution of Hydrochloric and Nitric acids) to produce Chloroauric acid. Chloroauric acid is used as the electrolyte in the Wohlwill electrolysis process to refine 99.999 pure gold. The Wohlwill refinement process has been in use since 1874.

An older refining process (the Miller process) is also used to refine gold to a 99.95% purity. The Miller process uses chlorine gas to react with (and precipitate) impurities from the molten ore.

It seems like Chlorine is the common element to both processes. If there was some residual chlorine left in the gold, I wonder if it might react with sulpher over time to produce sulpher dichloride...which, in it's purest state, is a "cherry red" compound. :scratch:

 

I just hope the PCGS First Strike slabs slow it down!

 

what can i do to accelerate the reaction since salt water didnt work. i would liek to continue the research.