FDOI: An ICG trademark in the past?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by JeffC, Oct 15, 2021.

  1. JeffC

    JeffC Go explore something and think a happy thought!

    Hi everyone. Friday night curiosity question. Sometimes, I see something and it causes an odd question to pop up in my head.

    I saw this photo of an ICG slab (not mine) and I noticed the Trademark (TM) superscript after "First Day of Issue."
    FDOI ICG.jpg
    I'm curious: At one time in the past, was the FDOI designation used only by ICG? But nowadays, that designation is used by all the TPGs.
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  3. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

  4. ddddd

    ddddd Member

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  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I was not working for ICG back then. Interesting question. I do know that each TPGS have a monopoly on certain words used on their labels.
    JeffC likes this.
  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    First strike, first release etc yes. Everyone uses First Day of Issue with that exact wording though. Whats really weird is the ANACS ones have the TM on it too, PCGS and NGC do not
    Insider and UncleScroge like this.
  7. OldSilverDollar

    OldSilverDollar Unknown Member

    Not sure if anyone else noticed but the coin is held by an edge holder..something the peace dollars graded by them later on never got..a shame! as if they used that with every coin and offered a white/gold label I believe they would be more popular today.
  8. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    USPTO - TESS (Trademark Electronic Search System)

    Search for the specific words in the mark

    Not specifically ICG...


    (Sorry I can't give a better link, the USPTO site is a horrible stinking pile of ofal, a 'stateless' site that's dependent on a key-value referencing state - as soon as I logout or my session is reaped, the link would be dead...)
    ddddd likes this.

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    The origin of all this goes back to before 2007. It all started when the TPGs started using the words "First Strike" on their slabs. I honestly can't remember off the top of my head who was the first to use those words, but one of them did and everybody else copied it.

    Using those words was an advertising gimmick, a sales gimmick, nothing more. Pretty much anybody and everybody who knew anything about coins knew that. But there were a lot of folks who didn't know it, and they interpreted those words literally, as in the coins with that label were actual first strikes, and worth more money because of that - which of course they were not. But many of those who though they were, well they were paying ridiculous prices for them. And eventually they found out the truth.

    When they did find out the truth they decided to sue and NGC was the one they chose to sue. If memory serves the suit was settled out of court as almost all suits like those are. But because of the suit all the TPGs decided to change the wording on their slabs so they too could not be sued. As I recall for a while at least they all used different words, kind of like how PCGS uses DCAM and NGC uses UCAM, but the phrases no longer indicated or implied "first strike". And that kept the TPGs out of trouble.

    So was ICG the first to use the words First Day Of Issue and trademark it for their new sales gimmick ? I can't recall for certain, they might have been. But the real point was none of them used First Strike anymore.
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  10. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    PCGS and ANACS still use it.
  11. OldSilverDollar

    OldSilverDollar Unknown Member

    Sports Cards started the trend in the early 1990's and since several of the card grading companies are owned or compete with parent companies of coin grading companies it is a given coin graders felt the need to borrow "FDOI"

    Many things now label wise now and even by the mint was borrowed from another hobby mostly the sports card hobby.

  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Then I stand corrected, I thought they changed like the others did.

    edit - if they do then they should ashamed of themselves because the coins are absolutely not first strikes.
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  13. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The PCGS slab says exactly what it is on the slab with Delivered within the first 30 days of initial release.

    ANACS calls them A first strike coin and has a * next to it.

    NGC has First Release and Early Release as their "first strike labels"

    Only NGC changed and Early Release can certainly be argued to be even worse unless the coin actually get get shipped out before the release date like does happen from time to time
  14. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    No. The image I posted from the USPTO indicates it was registered (and abandoned) by Legacy, Inc. in 2017/2018.

    Although I didn't show it, there was no prior registration of that four-word mark.

    You can CLAIM anything is a registered mark and try to register it if somebody challenges you, but if it isn't in the USPTO database, it ain't registered.
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  15. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    I have purchased graded coins and probably will buy more, but I rarely get concerned if it says "First Strike" or "First Day of Issue". Most of my graded coins have come through ebay. When I get a coin through ebay or Mount Vernon, I look as close as I can at the coin. As of yet, I have never returned a coin.
    I have bought quite a few coins (and other items) from the U.S. Mint. When I look over them, if I would find something of a serious nature with the coin, I would use the form that came with the coin, to return it to the Mint, however, again, I have not returned anything to the Mint.
    MIGuy likes this.
  16. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    It's like CAC, who cares, not me! MS-70 works for me...
  17. Phil's Coins

    Phil's Coins Well-Known Member

    This is JMHO but, the ONLY first strike is the very first coin off the mints machine, and everything else is not and should not be considered first strike. Besides, why would that make a difference in the coin, hold it next to the 2000th coin and unless there is a form of damage how do you know.
    Semper Fi
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  18. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    That's pretty much the whole point. For the TPGs to label the coins as First Strike is nothing but an out and out lie ! And the only reason they do it is to get submissions they would otherwise not get - in other words, money !
    JeffC likes this.
  19. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    We all know how the mint works, right? They strike coins and package them, then stick the boxes on a pallet to send to their fulfillment contractor, who prints shipping labels, puts things in shipping boxes, slaps the label on the box and hands it to the tender mercies of USPS or UPS...

    I don't know about your planet, but we stack pallets from the bottom to the top. So if there is ANY truth to the "first strike" malarky, it's the LAST boxes on the pallet at the bottom.

    Oh, and what happens if the mint changes dies???

    I wouldn't call it a lie - marketing puffery is an accepted practice as old as the market itself, caveat emptor was not first used in English...
    MIGuy and Robidoux Pass like this.
  20. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    Latin, I believe.
  21. Phil's Coins

    Phil's Coins Well-Known Member

    Call it what you will, it is still a lie used to make $$$$$
    Semper Fi
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