ladies and gentlemen, i had been surfing the net for just about anything i could find about US TRADE DOLLARS. a week had passed and i've learned so much from my expereince that i'm eager to share my knowledge those who are concerned. i'm german, male, 23, from Manila, phillipines. i was informed by a certain person from one of the southern areas of visayas that they have 2 bags of US trade dollars of different dates approx 54,000 pcs. i've been told that just a while back ago, there was an american who bought 180 pcs of these coins and they where selling them at a mere 500 pesos each, that equates to about 10$ a piece. to tell you all the truth, before this i never knew anything at all about numistic coins and the coin market!!! hehehe thus i began my reaserch and i was blown away by the idea that i've hit the jackpot! i've recieved 3 samples and had a metals specialist analyse them, good thing she was able to detect that the coins where too light to be silver merely by tossing them on her palm... she then told me that it wasn't the first time that she had encountered these counterfiet silver coins. she then told me that they where made of a lead mixture and that if i would rub it on paper it would leave lead marks. guess what!? it did We where Joking around shortly after about learning lessons of this world, there are 2 types of people, the other has the fakes... everything could possibly be faked... in her 20 years of experience with her metals she has yet to encounter a single person who came in with real gold LOL! (imagine that!) i inmmediately verified by the weight of the coins: i have 1882 s - 19.6 Grams 1880 s - 19.2 Grams 1874 cc - 19.9 Grams AUTHENTIC ONES ARE 27.2 Grams wc is 90% silver and 10% copper! these fakes look Extremely believable and they appear to be EF in condition. i had not lost a single cent in this false venture... the time and effort to learn what i've learned here was well worth it. i hope my contribution here would be useful to others, please add up any useful info about the history of the counterfiet trades and... any theories or suggestions. thankyou.
Welcome to the forum 500million, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for your very informative post. Several of us have been preaching the doctrine "Beware of fake trade dollars" for a long time, but without the specific hard facts you have brought to the front.
Wie geht's, all. Yes, thanks for the informative post. I've been thinking about buying a trade dollar on Ebay. Are there enough fakes out there to qualify never buying one that you couldn't weigh first? Am I just being paranoid?
To paraphrase an Amazon.com line, people who buy raw Trade Dollars (U.S., British, Japanese, or ???) on EBay also buy unicorn hides, toll bridges, and 2 for a dollar 5 carat diamonds in 24K gold settings.
point taken... so buying any key coin on Ebay that's uncertified is ill-advised? Even something with good pics?
Well not exactly. There's a bit more to it than that. IMO you shouldn't buy anything anywhere if you don't understand, know and are very familiar with what you are buying. Unless of course it is with money that you can afford to just burn. But if you know your coins, and I mean know them not just be able to recognize what they are - then sometimes it is worth taking a chance. As long as it's not too big of a chance. You can narrow down the odds and reduce your risk by also knowing your seller, and I don't mean the number of positive feedback replies they have. I mean have good solid referrences from people you trust. And then we come to certified coins - they can't be certified by just anybody. I would only buy coins that are certified by NGC, PCGS, ANACS or ICG. All others - forget it ! Unless you can actually have the coin in hand to examine and you are qualified to authenticate and grade it yourself. But of you can do ALL those things - by all means, buy raw coins on ebay.
The Trade dollars on Ebay are especially problematic. Look at any Trade dollar auction with the seller being from China. They are all fakes. You can train yourself to spot the most obvious of fakes by looking at these auctions. That being said, I personally would not buy a raw Trade dollar on ebay. Enough of these are here now, that they are showing up in so-called "estate sale" auctions and your local flea market.
Take a look at this. Somebody got beat really big time! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8318115055
Well, hmmm. How can you tell it's a fake? It doesn't look any different from the one in my red book! Man, I've got a lot to learn!
Better safe than sorry. If that coin does not look any different from the one in your Red Book, then, yes, you do have a lot to learn. You are not alone. I also have the same problem with many of these fakes. However, once I hold one, then I know. Even if they are made of silver and are close to the right weight, they still do not feel like other American coins. However, when I passed them around at an ANA Numismatic Theater, people whom I would consider knowledgable still could not tell the difference. One thing with these fakes is that talent is cheap. It only takes time and skill to make a good copy. A large fraction of the raw U.S. gold coins commonly accepted by dealers and collectors as "good" are just good copies made of good gold. Many were made in the Middle East where gold was gold in whatever convenient form. I have seen fake sovereigns made of good gold. Coins are just what we worry about. When speaking about fakes, I mention INTERPOL operations against fake designer clothes, home appliances, shock absorbers, and more. Back in 1979-1981, when home computering was being born, Apple had to deal with "Pineapple" Asian copies. A few years later, the Soviet "Agatha" personal computer was revealed to be an Apple II copy. We underestimate the problem with fake coins for many reasons. We do not want to admit how saturated the market is. No one wants to take a loss on a purchase. We do not want to admit that we cannot tell a fake when we see one. In the March 2004 Celator, there was a picture of fake ancients salted into an "uncleaned bulk lot."
NEVER buy a trade dollar unless it is slabbed, or unless you're an expert and have it in your hand. Just MHO...Mike
What do you guys think of this one? It is my first Trade Dollar: I took a gamble and purchased it off of eBay about 6 weeks ago, unslabbed, from a seller with terrific feedback and a generous return policy. He advertised it as "nice XF." I agree. The coin looks, feels, and sounds right, though most of my experience is with Morgan and Peace dollars. I'm as concerned about fakes as anyone, so I waited and waited until I felt the right coin came along. I opted for one of the most common examples too (over 5,000,000 made), thinking this might cut down on the chance it was a forgery. The vast majority of the bogus coins coming from China just seem so awfully done- spelling errors, clearly altered dates, incorrect dates/mintmarks, etc. A child could see through the ruse. I'm sure they'll get better with time.....
Nice pick Big! Probably got it for cheap as most of us won`t bid on them. You have more cajones than I do!
