Fake or Fourré Syracuse Tetradrachm?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Nov 15, 2021.

  1. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Here's a coin that I came across on eBay today, one that was sold on August 23, 2021.

    The seller, based in Germany (this is not Lanz), has a dubious feedback record of 96.2%. Looking at his other offerings, I am inclined to say this coin is a fake, based on his record. The seller is doktorka-333, and he has been a seller since 2016.

    For this coin, there are three photos:

    Fake or fouree tetradrachm Sicily 1.jpg

    Fake or fouree tetradrachm Sicily 2.jpg

    Fake or fouree tetradrachm Sicily 3.jpg

    As can be clearly seen in these photos, there is a break at the edge that reveals a copper or base metal core, with a silver upper layer. The style of the coin is very crude, nothing that the Syracuse Mint would produce. The weight of the coin is given as 16.77 grams.

    The listing also includes the following information, translated from German:

    "This auction includes listing of a rare silver tetra drachm - description below and all professional description stems from internet professional site. I've padded for better info."

    Then, there is a photo of a different, and genuine coin:

    Syracuse archaic tetradrachm c. 480 BC  11-15-21.jpg

    Followed by its description, again translated, seemingly from a catalog or auction as far as I can tell:

    "Sicily - Syracuse
    (Fifth century BC)
    Hieron I, tyrant of Syracuse (478-467 avant J.-C.)
    The government of Syracuse, in 733 BC. Was founded by Corinthian settlers, was from 485 BC. Von Gelon, tyrant of Gela since 491 BC It was a victory Olympic Games 488 BC. BC (chariot race) and remembered the victory through the the right to mint from Syracuse while the reverse was occupied by the head of Arethusa. This nymph, in mythology, resident in Ortygia Island, opposite the city of Syracuse, in the shape of a freshwater fountain (Virgil Eclog. IV.1, X.1). Alpheus, a satyr representing a river god in the Peloponnese, near Phylace in Arcadia, sued Arethusa. In his prayer, Artemis turned it into a river and allowed the sea nymph to escape the satyr. This legend allows to explain a hydro-geographical phenomenon: an underground river flows under the sea leading to Ortigia island. 480 BC The Carthaginians invaded Sicily, but were defeated by Gelon near Himera. In 478, Gelon died and his nephew Hiero followed him."

    Finally, the following information, translated, with some odd wording, probably due to Google Translate, which can produce odd and even amusing translations:

    "All promotions are voluntary offers for the customer. For this reason I do not accept returns.

    My coins have been in my possession for a very long time. they came from Paris a long time ago. For security reasons, I am not sure whether all coins are correct for all coins that I offer as spare parts or as defective coins. and when many of these coins are very interesting and are sold for a lot more money at various auctions. many coins used to be my property, so that they were now sold at a world auction for much more than I sold them."

    All of the above verbiage seems to be a round about way to sell a fake coin, one that sold for €120.

    So, what's the consensus?

    Thanks
     
    happy_collector and john-charles like this.
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  3. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Just looking at the poor quality of the design, all I see is "fake".
    Looking at the edges, they look like they were filed to remove the casting seam.
    The verbiage screams fake as well.

    I would avoid this coin like the plague.
     
  4. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

  5. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Plain old fake, not fourré, I reckon.
     
    Curtisimo and happy_collector like this.
  6. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    The 2 Eurocents coin looks OK to me, definitely not a fake.
     
  7. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    I must concur this coin is a fake and and not a very good one. The closest coin that I could find is this one Boehringer 234. Courtesy of CNG Coin Shop THIS IS NOT MY COIN As can be clearly seen there is a world of difference between the two. 803750.jpg I always council people to as much as possible stay away from E Bay. There are honorable people on E Bay but there are a lot who are either unscrupulous or simply not knowledgeable enough to know what they are doing. Thus their mistakes become your mistakes.
     
  8. lordmarcovan

    lordmarcovan 48-year collector Moderator

    Excellent! :hilarious:

    (And true)

     
    Ryro likes this.
  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I have a couple of Syracusan tetradrachms from the period that the OP coin was supposedly minted in. Here's one of them:

    Syracuse
    Deinomenid Tyranny, 480-475 BC
    Tetradrachm
    SNG ANS 103; Boehringer 316

    D-Camera Syracuse Tetradrachm, Deinomenid Tyranny, 480-475 BC, 5-16-20.jpg

    Like night and day, when compared to the OP coin.

    It is odd that the OP coin was produced with the split edge, revealing the base metal core, but I guess that really didn't matter, since the buyer apparently bought it as a "bargain". Perhaps this buyer is a new collector. If that is the case, then he or she is in for an unpleasant surprise somewhere down the line.
     
  10. Theodosius

    Theodosius Fine Style Seeker

    Why are there so many fake coins on eBay?

    Because there are so many people buying them that it's a very good business to be in...

    John
     
    Curtisimo and robinjojo like this.
  11. romismatist

    romismatist Well-Known Member

    Not to pile on to everyone else's comments, but the coin is a fake not just from a stylistic point of view (the head looks extremely crude - remember, this is a time from the height of archaic portraiture), but also from the surfaces of the coin, which appear a little to flat and even. On your genuine example, the coin surfaces are rough and slightly curved, while on the fake they are flat with no dings, pock marks, or other signs of use. It makes it seem like the fake was pressed rather than struck.
     
  12. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Some fakes are showing up "stressed", with abrasions and rough surfaces produced as a means to make the fake more plausible as a genuine coin.

    You're right about the flatness that characterizes these fakes when produced by pressing, as opposed to striking. I guess that is the most economical way to produce these coins, compared to producing dies.

    One thing that is apparent with this seller, and others on eBay, is that their coins often show identical obverses and reverses across many coins, with sometimes the same obverse used for a different reverse, such as these two coins, from the same seller mentioned in the OP:

    Two fake tetradrachms from doktorka-333 11-15-21.jpg
     
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  13. Kavax

    Kavax Well-Known Member

    This one is a modern forgery but fourrées and barbarous imitations are known for Syracuse cf Boehringer Taf. 28-29 and the article of Christof Boehringer (the son) "Die Barbarisierten Münzen von Akragas, Gela, Leontinoi und Syrakus im 5. Jahrhundert v. Chr."

    FourreeSyrac.JPG
     
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