If anyone can identify this as fake or as genuine please post a response. Weight is about 27 grams & diameter 38mm & both seem to be consistent with genuine measurements. I don't have the coin in hand so the photos & info comes from the seller. I've compared it to others I found on coinarchives & it seems good but still I'm not sure for some reason . Thanks
I'm not going to yell "FAKE!", no matter how great the temptation, based solely on pictures and a description. If I knew what the seller is asking, it would definitely help me reach a decision. Unfortunately from the standpoint of trying to authenticate this piece, the Meiji 7 (1874) silver ¥1 is one of the rarest of the series, complicated by the existence of four distinct varieties for that initial year of mintage. Neither the Japan Mint website, the JNDA catalog, or any other reference book in my collection, breaks down the 900,000+ mintage among varieties, although relative mintage is hinted at by the valuation differences. Most valuable is the "middle", followed in turn by the "early", "deep late" and "shallow late" in that order. In most years that the basic design was used - from Meiji 7 (1874) through Taisho 3 (1914) - mintages significantly exceeded 1-million, peaking at more than 22-million in Meiji 27 - 1894. The "early" variety can be eliminated from consideration here, as the direction of spiral on the pearl in the dragon's claws reversed itself between the "early" and "middle" varieties. Problem: Based on the shape of the "nana" ("7") character, the coin purports to be one of the late varieties, (distinguished from each other solely by the depth of the carving on that character). The key is the slight upcurve of the bottom stroke on the questioned coin. On both of the earlier varieties that stroke is essentially horizontal with, perhaps, a slight downward ending. On the "middle" variety the line of the spiral makes about one and one half complete turns, with the tip of the stroke turning down slightly at its left terminus, while that line begins with a downward stroke and makes approximately two and one-half full turns on both late varieties. The "nana" carving on the questioned coin would definitely qualify as "deep". The "shallow" version is quite flat and has almost no relief even in a well-struck, uncirculated example. Although the size and weight appear to be correct, the value of the real coin is sufficiently high to justify making "collector counterfeits" (as opposed to "money counterfeits") from the correct alloy in the correct size. In the condition shown, even with the cleaning(s) which are not considered as serious by Japanese collectors as by US collectors, if genuine the coin is easily worth more than a quarter-million yen (~US$2,517), and perhaps as much as ¥400,000 (~US$4,028). Aside from the obvious signs of vigorous (and probably multiple) cleaning, the surfaces don't show any obvious hints of irregularity, and the denticles on both sides look pretty normal, although what may be merely a trick of the lighting makes the rim width on the reverse a little dodgy. Bottom line - I'm suspicious, but wouldn't dream of basing a firm opinion on any pictures, even much better ones than already posted - unless, of course, the seller is offering it for a "too good to be true" price (anything less than US$1,000 or its equivalent).
Excellent information hontonai Thank you hontonai, excellent information which I never found anywhere else. I'm really a beginner when it comes to Japanese coins & this is my 1st Japanese coin purchase. Problem is that the seller says he bought it in China (red flag #1) from someone who doens't know a thing about coins, & the seller himself says he cannot & doesn't guarantee it, appreantly he didn't even know it was 1874 as you wrote, he thought it was 1876. He's asking $85 only for it (apparently way below value if genuine, red flag #2). Now, the seller is in the US, sells some certified coins & from you you wrote, this is worth good money, so why not try to certify it? (red flag #3, at least) I guess it's possible he knows it's fake or maybe it was returned from a grading service as forgery?? Anyhow, it just looked unlike any forged coin I've seen so far & has quite a real feeling to it. Despite att the above, do you suppose it's worth the risk of $85 or does everything I mentioned yell "FAKE" even louder?
Let me put it this way - I have nothing in my collection of counterfeits for which I paid more than $15. This one is so good, I might go $20, but no more. IMHO the chances that it is genuine are somewhere between 1/904,000 and 1/100-million!
It has a very nice look about it. If it's counterfit it's very good the details are very good but i know nothing nothing nothing about coins. Ice
OK, looking at the illustrations on p.12 in my own 2008 JNDA catalog, it seems that the characters for "ji" and "nen" both differ slightly from the coin illustrated in the catalog. From what I can tell, the bottom part of the "sansui" radical in "ji" is oriented a little differently, and the "kuchi" part of "ji" seems to be at a slightly different angle. Also, if the "nana" is "koki" (Type 3, late version), then the upper two horizontal lines in "nen" should be of equal length on the right side, but in the coin pictured at the top of this thread, the lower line appears to be longer than the upper line.
I'm afraid I have to sharply disagree with you on that point. Certainly the details are good enough to fool a non-Japanese collector who knows nothing about writing Japanese characters, but taking into account the errors that Collector1966 and I have described, and the others which we haven't gone into detail about, there is no way that even a slightly knowledgeable Japanese collector could be fooled.
That is why I said I know nothing nothing and nothing again. You have to agree if not fake a very Beautiful coin Ice
Just an observation. If I had purchased a coin that may be worth a half million (Had to say that - it just sounds nice) yen. I would definitely pay to have TPG certify. With a seller that will not guarantee - DANGER DANGER WILL ROBINSON
Seller goes even lower... how fake is it really I told the seller of my concerns & some of what I heared here & he's wiling to go down to $40 including shipping cost! I guess that means it's 100 percent fake, but I'm not interested in counterfeit coins so will pass on this one. I will probably leave Japanese coins alone as I know nothing of them (I just thought they look beautiful), or buy a more common type, or best perhaps is to buy TPG coins only. Thank you all for sharing your knowledge, much appreciated.
