Edward III noble

Hello all,
Thanks for looking into this. I am interested in purchasing an Edward III noble coin and it's been tough to find a coin in good condition. Saw this at a dealer and was curious what a fair price for this coin should be. These coins have become quite expensive!
Thanks.

 

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I'd be interested to know your reasons: I can't see anything particularly wrong with it myself.

 

I'm curious about why it's a fake myself. It is being offered by a well known dealer and it is from a previous auction a few years ago.

 

You must have scared them off G.

 

he scares us all at times lol:goofer:

 

Its tough to spot cast fakes versus genuine ones in pictures. I"ve heard a lot of fake coins from China entering the market. I"ll keep looking around. Any thoughts on NGC graded coins.

 

I'm far from sure that that coin is indeed a fake. There are relatively few slabbed hammered issues, because most collectors prefer to be able to hold them in hand. If you buy from a reputable dealer, you will most likely be buying the real thing, and if they make a mistake, you'll get a refund.

 

I see what you mean, but I disagree on this one. If it is fake, its not obvious in the picture. (But I'm sure that all doubt would be erased, were we to see the coin in hand)

 

It doesnt look fake to me. All the same, on a coin like this, simply buy it from a long standing dealer with a lifetime guarantee of Authenticity then have it checked out by and expert...Preferably one who will not lock it away in cheap plastic. Knowing he dealer will tell you relatively nothing unless he is a notorious fakes dealer or completely unknown. The dealer is well established with a good guarantee is what is important IMO.

 

I wouldn't either. I can see casting pits all over the place there...

 

Interesting discussion. Let's assume the coin is genuine, what do you think it is worth (going back to the original question).
This coin is not slabbed. Is offered by Spinks.
I don't know if I trust NGC on these things. I had a discussion with David Vagi and I have an email from him that states that in essence they just grade coins and don't authenticate them. I even emailed the head of NGC to verify this but didn't get a response. That is a nice business then to put some plastic on a coin and grade it but not confirm whether it's genuine or not!
I could do the same for a lot cheaper.

 

yeah, that's a nice racket. Best part is, people see a slab and immediately think that because it is encased in plastic it is authentic, makes one wonder how many fakes are walking around in plastic...its bad enough that the real ones are.

As for the pitting, there are many ways this could happen to an old coin...I have quite a few pitted ancients and middle ages coins. I also often see pitted gold coins from this time period which I believe are authentic. I cant see it well but the pitting doesnt look very uniform so that is a good sign.

It all depends on where the coin has been and what it has been exposed to. In the end you would need to have it inspected by a real expert once you have the coin. I have never purchased anything from Spinks but if they have a good guarantee, I would buy it then get a second opinion and go from there. If they don't, then I would pass on it. I would not buy a coin like this without a lifetime guarantee.

I would say this coin in this condition should fetch 3000+ USD, I have seen them sell for over 5000 in worse shape. I dont know if there are rarer types or not.

 

I am quite able to detect fake coins in hand as far as my experience has shown. The only time I have ever bought a forgery unknowingly was by post from a major auction house (unsold lot) and I was given my money back and an apology. All reputable dealers will return your money if they sell you a forgery. It's a legal offence if they don't. If the poster of this thread likes the noble pictured (which looks OK to me from the pictures - I've seen cast forgeries of this sort of piece), then s/he can buy it, and if it looks like a fake in hand, then the issue can be quickly sorted.

Personally, I hate slabs. They have damaged the market in American coins by creating a dogmatic value system. Slabs are , if anything, for investors, not for collectors. I know that I'm buying coins for much more than I could immediately sell them for - hopefully, in twenty or thirty years time, I will have made a hypothetical profit, but this isn't my main concern. I don't buy the grade, I buy the coin, and if the coin is attractive, I'm not really bothered whether it grades a 60 or a 65. There is also this growing trend that coins which have been subjected to some sort of damage are not legitimate collectors piece. I personally would rather buy the coin in a good grade for a more affordable price with a small piercing/love graffiti than buy a slabbed, low grade piece. The damage is part of the history. I can see why slabs were a good idea originally, but they haven't really solved the problem: previously there was only a market in fake coins - now there's a market in fake slabs and fake coins. Finally, I really hate my coins to be behind a centimetre of plastic. I go for paper envelopes - if you want to hold the coin in your hand, you can just take it out.

Sorry for the rant, but I just feel that many collectors spend too much money on TPG services when a guarantee would do far better.

 

^^Ditto...if you buy a slabbed coin, it still could be fake. NGC does not offer any guarantee the coins they slab are real...A reputable seller WILL offer a lifetime guarantee. So in this case all the slab does is give a person a false sense of security and an ugly plastic sheen. So you can cut out the useless middleman and simply buy the coin, do some due diligence after, if you find it is fake, return it for a full refund.

 

So the ancients coins slabbed by NGC with a "Genuine" label are not guranteed? I am not to famaliar with NGC but that seems to leave them open to a lawsuit.

 

I'd assume they don't use that label, as cleaning is not an issue. However:

http://www.ngccoin.com/ancients/index.aspx

 

Yup. And most dealers who sell these slabbed coins will waive their hands off all responsibility and refer you to NGC if there is any dispute. The catch is, once you take the slab off NGC voids all responsibility so you have to send it back to NGC in slabbed form with a request for reevaluation and document submitting why you think their authentication is inaccurate. They will then charge you shipping fees and maybe additional fees for reevaluation.
I"m surprised that more people haven't challenged this whole NGC Ancients business. I"ve discussed this issue with numerous dealers at major coin shows. Most reputable dealers don't know that the NGC Ancients does not guarantee a slabbed coin (or maybe they just claim ignorance).