Early American Coppers

What a unique bunch of folks these guys are. For some reason, after 30 years of collecting, I've suddenly been bitten by the copper bug. I have no idea what triggered it, but I've made 2 trips to the ANA library (I live within driving distance), and checked out a total of 6 books and 4 DVDs on the subject. I can't get enough of these things!

The only problem is, the really good ones are VERY expensive. I haven't decided what I'm going to collect within the EAC field yet, but I'm thinking middle or late date large cents, just from an affordability perspective. However, those draped bust cents are alluring.

Who are the copper people here? I'm just learning about all the Sheldon and Newcomb varieties (and others, but these seem to be the standards nowadays), how grading is different than what I'm used to (EGAD!), and how some things that are considered problems on other coins aren't that big of a deal to some early, early collectors. Oh, and no slabbing!

QUESTION for the copper folks: I've been looking at a lot of pictures of coppers to try to get the feel for grading, color, etc. However, every now and then, I see one in a slab with a details / genuine grade, with "cleaned" listed as the problem. However, I do not see ANY of the traditional signs of cleaning (hairlines, dark around the devices with clear fields, etc.). The coins have generally re-toned. So, HOW DO I SPOT CLEANING on an uncertified copper coin?

 

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I've been a member of the EAC for years and it is a great community of collectors. So if you haven't joined, it is well worth the cost of membership. My only regret is that I didn't join earlier.

Regarding grading, the EAC has it's own grading standards which consider sharpness, surfaces, and color. One thing that I'd suggest is to buy a copy of the EAC's guide for grading copper http://eacs.org/books-and-resources/eac-grading-guide/. It is an excellent book authored by some extremely knowledgeable copper experts. It covers EAC grading for many types of copper coins (such has half cents, large cents, and colonials) along with many other topics that interest EAC collectors.

Other than that, there a many great books (just run a search in CoinTalk) that deal with variety collecting of the various series. More than anything though, there is no substitute to handling a lot of copper. If you don't live in an area where that is possible, check out past auctions from Heritage and Goldberg. They have good pictures and well written descriptions of the coins they sell.

Glad to hear you've caught the copper bug! Good Luck

 

It always seems to take collectors a very long time to get hooked on the early coppers. The late dates are pretty easy to do a pretty high grade date set unless you start going after all of the Newcomb varieties. Some are just not found very easily. I recently completed a basic date set in AU and up (and even got lucky and accidentally scored an impaired 1846 proof for about sixty bucks). The key to spotting cleaned coppers is the color. It can look very orange or pinkish. You'll start to discover that pretty quickly. This one clearly was cleaned along the way, but I don't see any hairlines at all and it is a very nicely struck and pretty coin. This one on the other hand is very original and has a nice purple patina.

 

It Is all ways great to see someone step to the"other side"
Although I don't have the money to buy a specimen like Kirkuleez.
Copper is fun.
There is a great # of collectors here with a bunch of knowledge.
Have fun.
You sparked my interest!

 

That sediment is changing over time. The EAC journal has had some articles about it which are rather interesting.

Color. The things that work on silver are often very noticeable on copper. Even products that are relatively harmless to other series of coins like MS 70 will generally give early copper bluish/purplish tints.

 

I have also been caught by the copper bug without any specific sub area of interest.
I do have this coin, and regarding the post-cleaning color mentioned above - do I have any reason to believe this one has been cleaned? Also, any suggestions regarding grade?

Thanks!







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I love the old coppers too. I still need to get a draped bust cent for my U.S. typeset. Here's a few pics of, some of my old coppers. The draped bust half cent, has a warped rim. But good enough until I can upgrade...I,t was really confusing when I started out ...slang terms as matron head and such. Great idea doing some homework on these first... good luck and have fun with the old coppers...

 

I also love those early US colonial coins and the other pre-1792 US coppers. Unfortunately not so accessible from where I live.


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I collect Fugio (no kidding, right?) coppers, and am a recent member of EAC. I am also a member of C4, which if you specialize in colonial is another great group of folks. The EAC grading guide described above is a great addition to your library - it goes type by type and describes the grading characteristics for the coins.

As for cleaning, as others have said, you begin to develop an eye for it, and it all has to do with color. Pure copper, as was used in the Fugio coppers, starts as a reddish orange and tones to a chocolate brown, eventually ending up a darker brown. Cleaning tends to leave a pink tone to it, which tends to remain after the recoloring begins.

 

Welcome to the club, now open your wallet!!! I was in a similar situation regarding large cents and gravitated towards the late dates for the same reasons. I found them quite affordable and depending on how much you get into varieties and die states, it can be a very large and fascinating area to specialize in. I would encourage you to join EAC, and once you find an area you like contact the folks at EAC to find the different sup-groups. I know there is a very active late date census/die state group of collectors who love to talk copper, PM me if you are gonig that route and I can provide more details.

To your last question on cleaning, bear with me on the longish answer. This applies to non-mint state coins. As with all coins, when the copper is struck the entire coin has luster covering the surface. As the coin wears, the high points lose their luster, while the protected areas of the coin maintain the luster. So on a late date, the area inbetween/around the letters of LIBTERTY in particular keep their mint luster, while the top of the letters and the highest edge of the coronet/ear/check wear first. This worn area will develop a patina that looks much different than the patina in the protected areas of the coin. For original coins, you end up with a very nice two tone patina where the worn areas of the coin look different than the protected areas of the coin. In comparison, on cleaned and retoned coins, the wear and protected areas both have the same patina, because the coin was stripped and then the entire coin retoned at the same speed. Now, this isn't a hard and fast rule, but it's a generally good guideline, and once you see the toning pattern it's very hard to miss. It's much easier to see this with the coin in hand, the difference in patina is clear and obvious while on a cleaned coin the patina looks flat.

Try this one, it's a higher grade xf45, but you can see a slightly different look to the patina on the edge of the coronet and the letters:

http://early-copper.com/coinpics/51N8.jpg

Here is another one:

http://early-copper.com/coinpics/51N40(2).jpg

Compare to a cleaned/retoned coin:

http://early-copper.com/coinpics/47N1.jpg

 

Just a quick question. I'm guessing that early American Coppers basically means Large Cents, am I right?

 

Half cents as well, and many members branch out into colonials and other copper tokens. But generally speaking it refers to half cents and large cents.

 

Ah yes, I forgot about half cents. Thank you for the response!

 

EACer for a long time (Joined in 1982, member #1947, I think they are into the 5 or 6 thousands now.) I'm one of the "poor unfortunates" that's in love with the early dates. Just wish my bank account made it easier to collect them. My first love is the Draped bust cents. I have 184 or the 187 Sheldon numbered varieties (Anyone have a CHEAP S-96, S-217, or S-264?) All told I have 250 of the 295 Sheldon numbered varieties and 5 of the NC (Non-Collectible) varieties. I also publish the early date census.

A couple of years ago I also joined C4. I don't collect colonials but they are interesting.

 

From their pricing a lot of people do as well

 

What you missed out on this little beauty? http://www.ahmcoin.com/news/2015/5/12/1796-sheldon-96-s-96-large-cent-to-sell-may-31st You could have just cashed in your pocket change jar for that one.

 

Luckly it didn't sell, so Conder still has time!!!

 

Good point. Do you know what the reserve was?

 

No, bidding probably started around 150,000... To rich for my blood.

 

IMO, chocolate brown color with few distracting spots are the key to a nice copper coin. A chocolate BN coin will hide spots much better than a RB coin. These are the only two copper coins I own.