Early American Copper... Liberty Cap Half Cent availability in lower grades?

I'm looking for a 1794-1797 Liberty Cap Half Cent.

Forget about the 1793 ("Head Left") as that is out of my price range.

Greysheet tells me that AG is $135 or so, Good is $400, and VG is $575.

Unless I'm searching incorrectly, I don't see *any* completed auctions on Heritage in less than VF25.

eBay is a crap-shoot.

I have a list of dealers who specialize in EAC's from another thread, but so far, no luck.

I only found two (2) in Baltimore last week, and they were $300+ for problem coins in the AG to G range.

1) Are Greysheet prices accurate for this type coin?
2) Are they just hard to find in a problem-free state?

 

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1) Are Greysheet prices accurate for this type coin?
2) Are they just hard to find in a problem-free state?

1. No. It's been my experience that they are wildly inaccurate--both high on some and low on others.
2. Yes. Many (most?) early half cents left the mint with problems...and the intervening years haven't helped any. Copper is HIGHLY corruptible.

 

What is a reasonable amount I could expect to spend on a nice, problem-free example in Good condition? What about a details grade?

It's for a U.S. Type Set, so no varieties, rare die marriages, etc.

 

A certified G will probably be somewhere in the 650 to 700 dollar range--a VG will be an easy grand. Problem coins will be about half to 70% of those numbers based on the type and amount of the problem.

Edit to add...I don't recall what part of the country you reside in, but the EAC national convention is this week in Charlotte, NC.
Jim

 

As I understand it the US was having planchet problems at the time and well into the 1810's.
The US didn't have the materials and techniques to make even reasonable planchets.
And the ones imported from the UK were substandard (porous and other problems).
That's why it's difficult to find non-porous 1811 half cents.

I wanted a good looking 1794-1797 Liberty Cap Half Cent so I got an XF-40.
Not surprisingly it was expensive.

 

Shawn Yancey has a Gallery Mint "Copy" of a 1796 on his web site for $40 if you want a hole filler until you find something. You can see what those years half cents are bringing these days.
http://www.earlycoppercoins.com/Half-Cents_c_1.html

I finished a date set about four years ago, just in time I'd say. Usually I run behind the cost curve LOL

 

Shawn also has two nice, G4 and AG3 liberty half cents available. His prices are pretty reasonable for what they are.

http://earlycoppercoins.com/1797-C2...dge-NGC-AG3-Off-Center-Mint-Error_p_3286.html
http://earlycoppercoins.com/1794-C1a-R3-Liberty-Cap-Half-Cent-PCGS-G4_p_2910.html#

You are going to pay a premium for relatively clean examples. That G4 1794 would make a very nice coin for a type set, complete devices on the obverse with a readable date and no major problems. You have to get use to the idea of spending quite a bit of money on clean early copper.

Don't know if this will work, but here is my search for 94-97 half cents on HA:

http://coins.ha.com/c/search-result...+1794+1797&N=51+790+231+306&ic4=SortBy-071515

 

So Greysheet AG $135 is completely wrong?

 

For early copper, yes. Early copper has it's own 'Price guide', no one who seriously collects early copper uses greysheet. Additionally, while morgan dollars may be fungible assets with one 64 basically interchangeable with another 64, early copper is not. These coins come in huge variations, and surface quality makes a drastic difference. In EAC circles these coins are net graded, sharpness minus any defects, and then priced on surface quality, so two coins net graded to g4 could differ in price 2+ fold based on if it's a choice g4, or a scudzy 20 net g4.

 

What do you all think of this one?

Scratched, corroded; plain edge, no pole.

 

The margin I like to think along is, hole filler versus coin I will be happy with. I try to stay away from hole fillers as the cost of upgrading once you account for transaction costs is pretty high. Wait for a coin you will be happy having in your collection. I can't answer that question for you with the coin you posted, but for me it would be no.

I would wait for something along these lines for a budget coin:

http://coins.ha.com/itm/half-cents/...1531-21003.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515

Or save up and spend along the lines of the 94 that Shawn has available. My preference in terms of damage is man made is worse than environmental, it's eye appeal that I am looking for and man made damage really hurts in my eyes. I really try to avoid cleaned and scratched coins if I can help it, but price is a factor there too.

 

Patience is a virtue (more than some other sets) when it comes to early copper. Especially if you want a problem free coin. What I look for especially with the lower grades and earlier dates. Of course price can be a big factor. Stay patient for the right coin you can live with.

 

@beef1020, @mark_h and others...

If the coin referenced above were at $450, would that make a difference in your recommendations?

 

At $450 I would wait. Honestly, even at a quarter of that price I would wait. For me personally, the only thing that coin has going for it is decent detail; it's cleaned, scratched, has rim dings, and corrosion on the reverse. Every time I pulled it out to look at it I would see the defects. For a type set type coin, where you aren't restricted by rarity, I would wait for a coin with above average eye appeal, one that you will be happy owning for a long time.

For me given budget constraints, I select early copper along the detail versus corrosion margin. The half cent I posted from HA is a good example. Some corrosion can kill eye appeal for me, while others I am much less bothered by. The coin I posted is one of those where for $250 I would probably buy it. I would prefer a higher budget to get the same detail with clean surfaces, but $250 on a clean surface half cent will have significantly less detail.

I guess I am trying to say, spend some time looking at coins and be honest about what types of problems you can live with. Given that you are unlikely to find good detail with clean surfaces at a price point you are comfortable paying, you will have to choose some amount of defect. For me, that defect is natural and unobtrusive corrosion, I try to stay away from man made defects, especially on common coins. If you are talking about rare die states where only 10 are known to exist, I'll largely ignore surface issues and take whatever comes along because the purchase is largely driven by unique feature present. But for type coins, where the purpose of the purchase is to represent the type of coin, I would be looking for a coin with enough detail to really show the type and above average eye appeal.